Joao Carvalho

[ThePromisedLand]

Look at this positively - if he does turn out to be surplus to requirements then we can sell & MON can add to transfer budget in the summer.

[ac_vodka]

agree - better to make decision soon other wise value will drop - he has shown enough to suggest potential is there just not suited in Championship

[Maltared]

And do you think anyone will pay what we payed!? Not a chance....if nothing out of this world happen from now to the end of the season...his value already dropped...do you think anyone would pay more than a couple of million for him !? Similar scenario applies to BB

[Widdow]

Some of the foreign players who struggled last season at Norwich have been outstanding this season. Some players need time to settle and climatise to the championship.

It was one of things I said when everyone was thrilled we signed the Portuguese for vast sums. I’d sooner the £13 was spent on proven players in the league. It wasn’t so now we have to be patient and hope he steps up and be more consistent, Cos when he was good he was good. He needs better players around him as well, ones who can make clever runs.

[ThePromisedLand]

And do you think anyone will pay what we payed!? Not a chance....if nothing out of this world happen from now to the end of the season...his value already dropped...do you think anyone would pay more than a couple of million for him !? Similar scenario applies to BB

Don’t recall anyone suggesting we’ll recoup our investment.
Fact remains the fee will be measured in millions(£) - and enhance MON’s budget.
IF we elect to sell.

[Strawberry Avenger]

I personally think  Mendez had AK's pants down when he approached him about Carvalho, Goncalvez and Dias! Not one of them have really brought anything to the table and to be honest we have  wasted a lot of money. None of them are hard tackling ball winners, their passing is at times woeful and apart from the occasional decent through ball have not contributed enough to be in the side. I know Dias has gone, and i for one was delighted we got rid!
I feel that Carvalho is to us what Oliver Burke was to RB Liepzig, a punt on the words of an agent rather than the prolonged conclusion of some decent scouting.
For those of you that are fans of Carv's, i respect that. Sadly, i am not. I feel, (and this is just my opinion, and nobody else has to accept that) that the £13m price tag on the lad has had an effect on supporters opinions of him. I am pretty certain that if we had picked him up for say £1m, fans wouldv'e been on his back over some of his performances. But because he is the club record signing, are almost wishing his performances are warranting the money we paid for him.
Take Ben Osborne for example, that lad gets stuck in week after week, ok sometimes he makes errors, but he is getting stuck in! His running throughout the game is exemplary. Look at the amount of flak he regularly gets, which i personally don't understand. Yet Carvalho will lose the ball and make no attempt at winning the ball back. He pulls out of tackles, and i have not seen him win one aerial duel for the ball. It just seems to me that the lad is scared of getting hurt if he goes into a challenge. Interestingly, that is supported by NG3's stats, whereby he comes in at 16th in the squad for average tackles per game!
Like everyone else, i was saying hes a young lad in a foreign country, give him time and he will show us what he can do. We are now in March and I am still waiting. We cannot afford to be carrying players at this stage of the season, especially as we do still have a chance of a sniff of the play offs.
I don't like slagging off our own players, irrespective of how good they are or not, but in this case, i just feel that we were mugged over when we signed the lad.

Please prove me wrong Carvs

Is that why Mendez and Marinakis fell out?

Because of the pants down?

Forest need to strengthen scouting.

Jan was a step in the right direction.

SA.

[stirred]

Per my understanding of FFP, Carvalho’s transfee fee of £13.2mio gets amortised over the 5 year contract. So for the end of this season’s accounts (as of May?) his asset value will go down to £10.56mio, ie we’ll book a loss of £2.64 mio this financial year. Next season it will be a loss of a further £2.64mio and so on.

So if we sell in May we need to recoup £10.56mio just to not incur a further loss this year.

If we sell him in June/July/August, we know for the financial year of that (next) season we’re gonna have to write his value down by a further £2.64 mio on the balance sheet, so a sale price of £7.92mio would be necessary not to take a further loss. Even if we got that price, for example, we’d get cash in the hand, but from an accounting / FFP point of view it wouldn’t help relative to keeping him, other than meaning we wouldn’t take the £2.64mio wrote-down in subsequent years.

But how low will his value go...? I assume liquidity isn’t the binding constraint on us, so the accounting methodology for FFP may add another argument for being patient with him.

[ac_vodka]

Yeah unlikely we`re get back what we paid - however we got 1m for Kapino didn`t we and he only played 4 games ?

[Salvatore Matrecano]

One thing for sure is his value will drop if he doesnt play. Some of us have short memories though, back in November most were saying how well he was adapting to the English game, getting stuck in and working hard, showing glimpses of real quality and worth every penny. Maybe we were fooling ourselves.

It is definitely alarming how he seems to have gone backwards. I wonder if a season long loan is the answer, similar to Goncalves, as above “here you are RB Leipzig he’s yours for the year with an option to buy at £25M”. Well you never know.

The irony is that if by some miracle we do achieve promotion this year I reckon he is one of the very few in the squad who might actually cut it in the prem.

[PsychoStanleyStone]

Good to hear the players are actually being coached though

I've held back on these stats, until the mood became more positive, as I wanted fans behind the club, rather than squabbling over an individual, but our #10 is 8th, in this squad, when it comes to shots per game, behind Yates & Guédioura, amongst others.

A #10 should be top 5 in that stat, & certainly not behind deeper sitting midfielders & he's 9th in passing accuracy, another area he should be top 5.

In terms of actual number of passes he averages 32, which is 12th.

Of course a #10 isn't just about creativity, if you defend from the front, as all teams should, a #10 is also key to keeping the opposition locked in. Look at the game Monday night, Murphy & Yates shut down Huddlestone & because of that 60% of Derby's possession was with their defensive players, in their defensive third of the pitch, effectively neutering them.

Our #10 comes 16th in our squad when it comes to average tackles per game, 22nd when it comes to interceptions (Ryan Yates has already made more in total, in 20 games less), & Carvalho is 18th when it comes to blocking the ball.

He's also 3rd in our squad when it comes to being dispossessed, & 2nd when it comes to losing the ball through bad ball control.

  following the post on Carvalho I felt someone had to challenge this. I respect all opinions, but I also recognise the potential for borderline indoctrination to filter in. For the record, I loved watching Carvalho play, but 100% support MON and the more pragmatic approach required to achieve what we all want. I hope this doesn't sound like a personal attack, it is not meant too, but I like this forum and don't want to see it slide down a slippery slope.
Hand grenade dropped, off to get ready for my train now......

Zico, I've been pondering this debate for the last 24 hours, I like it, NG3 put up some stats and opinions and you have challenged, we could do with more of this although I find this forum extremely informative, as in the information to posts ratio is extremely high compared to lost the plot and others.

Most importantly, despite our appreciation for the quality and depth of analysis NG3 puts in, we all, hope to high heaven, probably including NG3, you are right, because if you are right we are going to see a phenomenal player, I appreciate the argument that Forest produced some the best performances with him in the side earlier in the season.  

Regards the stats, they aren't good, to the contrary quite condemning, but although they are interesting I prefer to bury my head in the sand and ignore them and hope the guys game comes together and 1 or 2 assists or a goal or some skill or effort will do me.  Basically he could influence a game dramatically but the stats over the season won't move much.  It could be a run off the ball that takes the defenders away, or good passes that show as intercepted or failed but the team mate really should of anticipated and been on the front foot.

As you can see, I know diddly, I see very few games, besides Derby and WBA games which I loved, any others were on very poor streams.  I do know we have 33 players, probably the biggest squad in the league and I can't remember who half of them are.  I hope there are a few secret weapons buried in there, maybe Pele, Appiah, Aransiford? or something can be done to get the squad into cohesive lethal combination.  Or just a horrible set of thugs who win ugly, i'll take either.  No reason Carv can't contribute significantly.

The worry I have isn't just adapting to the English championship but for the young Portugese in Nottingham with £20k to spend on fun every week, there are a lot of snares, vices and distractions, however much potential a guy has and however much you spend, you cannot guarantee they will not be tempted and corrupted by the dark side.  That is the thing about Yates and Worrall they were settled in the area and happy to totally focus, even working with less natural ability but more focus and passion maybe?

We have plenty of players who seem totally focussed on the cause, but I don't know if everyone is totally bought in yet, having a too big a squad could possibly be slightly counter productive to a focussed team spirit.  I'm thinking if we do stumble across a secret weapon it will more likely be Pele or Appiah, hopefully both.

[TheGreenMan]

Still the most talented player we have. Granted he isn’t pulling up any trees at the moment, but hopefully nothing that a little coaching can sort out.
Give me Carvalho any day over someone who runs around a lot and apparently gets stuck in, but brings very little.

[Jasper Scarrott]

Still the most talented player we have. Granted he isn’t pulling up any trees at the moment, but hopefully nothing that a little coaching can sort out.
Give me Carvalho any day over someone who runs around a lot and apparently gets stuck in, but brings very little.

Don't agree. I think Lolley is much more talented, brings more to the team and is more of a matchwinner than Carvalho will ever be.