Nottingham Forest - Wigan

[ThePromisedLand]

No more than the criticism of Carvalho surely Sniff.
Not saying he’s worth a starting place at the moment but the stick he gets amazes me.
As I said earlier he has started just twice in his preferred position all season - and we won both.
All other appearances have been alongside Silva, or out wide or off the bench.
And he is the same age as Yates.

[ThePromisedLand]

Lamouchi has come in for stick from a number of fans - me included - for his selections in this game.
Interesting to see therefore Mowbray’s comments this morning where he claims to be counting his walking wounded as a result of ‘fatigue injuries’ ahead of Wednesday’s game.
Food for thought.

[Alf]

I don’t want the likes of Yates anywhere near the first team squad.
We need so much better than what he can offer.
Sell - NOW - whilst there is some value.

He's a place in the squad, we'd be a further 4-6pts down had he not played when Sow got injured, and that would possible have been enough to see Mouch sacked. We shouldn't get rid of these players because they're not up to being 1st choice yet, we need depth too.

The problem is the failure to bring in another 1st/2nd choice DM such as Colback or a young Geddy. Yates will be costing us 50-100k/year in wages, we won't likely sign someone as committed, willing to play 3rd choice or available for that same price. We also won't get much for Yates if we do sell either. So it makes little sense to get rid.

The only player who we should be looking to sell out that 3rd string is Carvalho because he costs us so much each year he's here (2.6m + wages), and that prevents us investing in other players significantly. Semedo is pap, but I'm not bothered about sending him back because again it's an extra body, one capable of scoring, for the last 20-30 min if needed. He just, like Yates, shouldn't be seeing so many starts.

Carvalho on £50k a week?!
I’ll have a pint of what you’ve been drinking Alf.

The sum includes his fee. 13.2m over 5 years is 2.6m/year. That's the deal we negotiated, and that's what it costs us each year to watch him swanning about doing **** all.

You simply can't compare that to having Yates as cover for not costing even 1p/year in transfer fees.

The club can easily carry Yates' financial commitment. Whereas Carvalho's is a burden.

[the jock]

Bridcutt is better than semedo and yates
So is yacob.
Pants is better than muric and Smith

Obviously must be some underlying circumstances because we would have a better squad with these lads included  . More experience.

[ThePromisedLand]

I don’t want the likes of Yates anywhere near the first team squad.
We need so much better than what he can offer.
Sell - NOW - whilst there is some value.

He's a place in the squad, we'd be a further 4-6pts down had he not played when Sow got injured, and that would possible have been enough to see Mouch sacked. We shouldn't get rid of these players because they're not up to being 1st choice yet, we need depth too.

The problem is the failure to bring in another 1st/2nd choice DM such as Colback or a young Geddy. Yates will be costing us 50-100k/year in wages, we won't likely sign someone as committed, willing to play 3rd choice or available for that same price. We also won't get much for Yates if we do sell either. So it makes little sense to get rid.

The only player who we should be looking to sell out that 3rd string is Carvalho because he costs us so much each year he's here (2.6m + wages), and that prevents us investing in other players significantly. Semedo is pap, but I'm not bothered about sending him back because again it's an extra body, one capable of scoring, for the last 20-30 min if needed. He just, like Yates, shouldn't be seeing so many starts.

Carvalho on £50k a week?!
I’ll have a pint of what you’ve been drinking Alf.

The sum includes his fee. 13.2m over 5 years is 2.6m/year. That's the deal we negotiated, and that's what it costs us each year to watch him swanning about doing **** all.

You simply can't compare that to having Yates as cover for not costing even 1p/year in transfer fees.

The club can easily carry Yates' financial commitment. Whereas Carvalho's is a burden.

Assumes we’ll get diddly squat for him Alf.
Lies, damn lies & statistics.

[Masetree]

I get that Carvalho is being played out of position but for the amount of money we paid for him and the talent some think he has, he should still be able to make an impact. Its not like we're asking him to play at full back.

If Joao Carvalho's name was Ben Osborn then he would have been driven out of Nottingham by an angry mob by now.

My Mrs's  family are all Southampton fans so I went with them to the Palace match on Saturday before hotfooting it back to the City Ground for Sunday. Saturday I sat and watched 2 premier league teams who are in a relegation scrap and they are both miles ahead of us. If we did somehow get promoted then we're going to be in some serious trouble next season.

[Alf]

I think it's fair to say we won't recoup the full 13.2m for Carvalho.

Either way, back to my original point, the financial weight he carries is the reason why we can't afford to keep him on the books just to develop him, or have as 3rd/4th choice backup.

Whereas on the flipside we're not paying any transfer fee out for Yates', and he signed a new contract Jul 18 when he barely had any game time to his name so will be on relative pittance wage wise. That you can afford to develop, and keep as 3rd/4th choice backup.

[ThePromisedLand]

Don’t disagree on your Carvalho points Alf - except my earlier comments re his pre season & subsequent 2 starts in his preferred position ( both wins away from home ). I fully expect him to go in January and - given our current squad - wouldn’t put up a strong argument against.
Re Yates - no comment ( commitment to Sniff ).

[TheRealRedBeard]

IN:

Colback is an ideal signing in the Jan window, particularly with his contract expiring in the summer. No Prem clubs appear to be queuing up for his signature and he is hands down a far superior option to Yates and therefore represents an immediate 1st team improvement.

I would also try and loan out Jordan Ibe from Bournemouth, he is also out of contract in the summer and has only featured twice in the league this year. He needs game time to put himself in the shop window and may see us as a credible way of playing the prem next year. Again he is real quality who would unequivocally improve the 1st team.

Marcus Gayle would be an excellent signing and would bang the goals in, but if we can’t get him then go to the continent and buy an in form striker. Leke James at Molde has banged them in this season (season finished end of Nov) and could be picked up for peanuts! I’d happily take Shankland also, but I don’t want a loan youngster from Chelsea or some other kid with no experience or proven quality.

OUT:

Carvs
Semedo
Mir

[Paplane]

IN:

Colback is an ideal signing in the Jan window, particularly with his contract expiring in the summer. No Prem clubs appear to be queuing up for his signature and he is hands down a far superior option to Yates and therefore represents an immediate 1st team improvement.

I would also try and loan out Jordan Ibe from Bournemouth, he is also out of contract in the summer and has only featured twice in the league this year. He needs game time to put himself in the shop window and may see us as a credible way of playing the prem next year. Again he is real quality who would unequivocally improve the 1st team.

Marcus Gayle would be an excellent signing and would bang the goals in, but if we can’t get him then go to the continent and buy an in form striker. Leke James at Molde has banged them in this season (season finished end of Nov) and could be picked up for peanuts! I’d happily take Shankland also, but I don’t want a loan youngster from Chelsea or some other kid with no experience or proven quality.

OUT:

Carvs
Semedo
Mir

Totally agree with all of that with the exception of getting shot of Semedo. I think he has something, when playing with capable players around him.

[wassy04]

Bridcutt is better than semedo and yates
So is yacob.
Pants is better than muric and Smith

Obviously must be some underlying circumstances because we would have a better squad with these lads included  . More experience.

Pants was rubbish, glad we got rid of him! People need to forget about these players as they've cleared been binned off.
(For what's it's worth Jacob does seem like he'd add value but maybe he's just not fit enough?)

[Salvatore Matrecano]

IN:

Colback is an ideal signing in the Jan window, particularly with his contract expiring in the summer. No Prem clubs appear to be queuing up for his signature and he is hands down a far superior option to Yates and therefore represents an immediate 1st team improvement.

I would also try and loan out Jordan Ibe from Bournemouth, he is also out of contract in the summer and has only featured twice in the league this year. He needs game time to put himself in the shop window and may see us as a credible way of playing the prem next year. Again he is real quality who would unequivocally improve the 1st team.

Marcus Gayle would be an excellent signing and would bang the goals in, but if we can’t get him then go to the continent and buy an in form striker. Leke James at Molde has banged them in this season (season finished end of Nov) and could be picked up for peanuts! I’d happily take Shankland also, but I don’t want a loan youngster from Chelsea or some other kid with no experience or proven quality.

OUT:

Carvs
Semedo
Mir

Jordon Ibe is an excellent shout. Not saying he is either available or that we would get him but still only 24, English, potential but struggling to hold down a place in a prem team, attacking mid, ticks every box. He could well be out of reach but that’s exactly the type we should be looking for.

Hang on scratch that, just seen he has been arrested and charged with failing to stop after an accident. Might suit the lot down the road better.