Champions League/Potential European Super League Etc
#46
(19-04-2021, 09:45 AM)stirred Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 09:34 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote: I’m intrigued at the absence of Bayern Munich & PSG.

The very premise - without these two - is surely significantly weakened.

Would like to hear the German view on all of this.

Is it a coincidence that those are the 2 clubs with a domestic monopoly, so are pretty much guaranteed entry to the European money league each year anyway?

Also PSG are owned by the Qatari's who...got...the world cup. So maybe they don't want to rock the boat ahead of that in 2022.

PSG owner is on the UEFA board and the qataris have also got BEIN sports which has a big ECL/EPL deal so it's not really in their interests. As for Bayern, not sure I think the guy that runs them has been fairly negative about ESL in past so maybe just a principled move
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#47
I think this will be difficult to stop, most clubs are in increased debts due to the pandemic so extra rebates to the TV deals for a diluted PL would be difficult to overcome. They've timed it perfectly, all clubs in debt, no fans to protest. I think the PL will need to source outside funding to protect the remaining clubs, a statement from Sky perhaps saying it will not demand rebates would go a long way to strengthening their hands. Ideal scenario is the PL kicks them out and then it will be carnage.

I think a few things that haven't really been talked about yet but would do if they were to be kicked out of the league. Contracts would surely be voidable if the players chose to, not sure many would take that route but some would. Would theoretically no longer be eligible for World Cup and Euros.

Secondly, what happens when they play the first games and no-one wants to buy tickets from England. I really think they're over-estimating the loyalty of the match going fans who are currently starved of cash as it is. I think there will be plenty of TV watching fans happy to see this but don't think it will be as easy to fill the grounds. I know I wouldn't go if we were involved. Also, can't imagine you'll get many away fans, how many people can repeatedly afford midweek trips to Spain and Italy.

I think this will not actually happen but if it does it could be the best thing that's happened to football in years. Also, shame this didn't happen last year we might've gone up!
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#48
(19-04-2021, 09:59 AM)wassy04 Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 09:45 AM)stirred Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 09:34 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote: I’m intrigued at the absence of Bayern Munich & PSG.

The very premise - without these two - is surely significantly weakened.

Would like to hear the German view on all of this.

Is it a coincidence that those are the 2 clubs with a domestic monopoly, so are pretty much guaranteed entry to the European money league each year anyway?

Also PSG are owned by the Qatari's who...got...the world cup. So maybe they don't want to rock the boat ahead of that in 2022.

PSG owner is on the UEFA board and the qataris have also got BEIN sports which has a big ECL/EPL deal so it's not really in their interests. As for Bayern, not sure I think the guy that runs them has been fairly negative about ESL in past so maybe just a principled move

PSG stance will be because the Qatar world cup is just around the corner. And in Germany 51% of each club is owned by the fans. That's why tickets prices are so low over there. It's a model which I think our government should be looking at imposing. And it's only at governmental level that things will change. Football will not change itself.
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#49
I won't be watching that's for sure.
Πιστέψτε το, θα τα καταφέρω.
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#50
(19-04-2021, 10:13 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: I won't be watching that's for sure.

Same and would likely boycott any media provider that signs up to it
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#51
(19-04-2021, 10:13 AM)Paplane Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 09:59 AM)wassy04 Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 09:45 AM)stirred Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 09:34 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote: I’m intrigued at the absence of Bayern Munich & PSG.

The very premise - without these two - is surely significantly weakened.

Would like to hear the German view on all of this.

Is it a coincidence that those are the 2 clubs with a domestic monopoly, so are pretty much guaranteed entry to the European money league each year anyway?

Also PSG are owned by the Qatari's who...got...the world cup. So maybe they don't want to rock the boat ahead of that in 2022.

PSG owner is on the UEFA board and the qataris have also got BEIN sports which has a big ECL/EPL deal so it's not really in their interests. As for Bayern, not sure I think the guy that runs them has been fairly negative about ESL in past so maybe just a principled move

PSG stance will be because the Qatar world cup is just around the corner. And in Germany 51% of each club is owned by the fans. That's why tickets prices are so low over there. It's a model which I think our government should be looking at imposing. And it's only at governmental level that things will change. Football will not change itself.

Yeah, the 51% could be the factor. It seems the ship may have sailed on that one over here - how many clubs' fans could afford to buy 51%?  Nice idea though if the richest 6 leave, tv deals are worth less and the valuations drop!
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#52
(19-04-2021, 10:18 AM)wassy04 Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:13 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: I won't be watching that's for sure.

Same and would likely boycott any media provider that signs up to it

You'd want to be able subscribe separately to our domestic league without the ESL, so we can vote with our wallets. i.e. not Sky bidding for everything and making us pay for a sub no matter what we want to watch. Would be interesting to see how it went that's for sure.

I kind of want it to happen, cos I think football needs a shake-up anyway. It's horribly distorted, so let them break it and it gives the chance to make anew.
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#53
(19-04-2021, 10:09 AM)wassy04 Wrote: I think this will be difficult to stop, most clubs are in increased debts due to the pandemic so extra rebates to the TV deals for a diluted PL would be difficult to overcome. They've timed it perfectly, all clubs in debt, no fans to protest. I think the PL will need to source outside funding to protect the remaining clubs, a statement from Sky perhaps saying it will not demand rebates would go a long way to strengthening their hands. Ideal scenario is the PL kicks them out and then it will be carnage.

I think a few things that haven't really been talked about yet but would do if they were to be kicked out of the league. Contracts would surely be voidable if the players chose to, not sure many would take that route but some would. Would theoretically no longer be eligible for World Cup and Euros.

Secondly, what happens when they play the first games and no-one wants to buy tickets from England. I really think they're over-estimating the loyalty of the match going fans who are currently starved of cash as it is. I think there will be plenty of TV watching fans happy to see this but don't think it will be as easy to fill the grounds. I know I wouldn't go if we were involved. Also, can't imagine you'll get many away fans, how many people can repeatedly afford midweek trips to Spain and Italy.

I think this will not actually happen but if it does it could be the best thing that's happened to football in years. Also, shame this didn't happen last year we might've gone up!

Interesting points Wassy. 

I wonder if lower league clubs will be receiving phone calls today explaining to them how much more money they will be receiving. As we know from our own recent history, if money's put on the table then people will vote for anything/anyone. There may be a few differing opinions when the cash is put on the table today.

I think that Sky's involvement in the British game is diminishing what with the likes of BT and Amazon becoming interested in broadcasting games. I've stopped my sky sports subscription as it was an expensive luxury. I'm sure lots of the others have too if I'm typical. Sky's response today will be interesting, as they fund the Premier League but will presumably be interested in showing the new games too.

Re players, I think it's money that matters to them and as such a lot of them wont give a S**t about not playing for their country. And let's be honest, if we were a gifted lad aged 16 or 17 what would our motivation be? Money and a glittering career, or playing for England, Wales, Montenegro etc.

And re tickets, let's face it, a ticket to watch a game isnt going to be £25 is it? You'll be looking at £50/60 quid minimum I would've thought. And the clubs will be selling season tickets for these new games which will be astronomical in cost. So to go to a game a family might be looking at £180/£200. Completely unsustainable for most family pockets.
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#54
(19-04-2021, 10:19 AM)stirred Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:13 AM)Paplane Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 09:59 AM)wassy04 Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 09:45 AM)stirred Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 09:34 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote: I’m intrigued at the absence of Bayern Munich & PSG.

The very premise - without these two - is surely significantly weakened.

Would like to hear the German view on all of this.

Is it a coincidence that those are the 2 clubs with a domestic monopoly, so are pretty much guaranteed entry to the European money league each year anyway?

Also PSG are owned by the Qatari's who...got...the world cup. So maybe they don't want to rock the boat ahead of that in 2022.

PSG owner is on the UEFA board and the qataris have also got BEIN sports which has a big ECL/EPL deal so it's not really in their interests. As for Bayern, not sure I think the guy that runs them has been fairly negative about ESL in past so maybe just a principled move

PSG stance will be because the Qatar world cup is just around the corner. And in Germany 51% of each club is owned by the fans. That's why tickets prices are so low over there. It's a model which I think our government should be looking at imposing. And it's only at governmental level that things will change. Football will not change itself.

Yeah, the 51% could be the factor. It seems the ship may have sailed on that one over here - how many clubs' fans could afford to buy 51%?  Nice idea though if the richest 6 leave, tv deals are worth less and the valuations drop!

No, it wont work if fans groups have to buy their 51% but the government could look at giving fans groups 51% of voting rights maybe?

It would go against the principles of a tory government but this particular government is very anxious to look after northern voters. This could be a vehicle they could ride to demonstrate their commitment to northerners.
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#55
(19-04-2021, 10:29 AM)Paplane Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:09 AM)wassy04 Wrote: I think this will be difficult to stop, most clubs are in increased debts due to the pandemic so extra rebates to the TV deals for a diluted PL would be difficult to overcome. They've timed it perfectly, all clubs in debt, no fans to protest. I think the PL will need to source outside funding to protect the remaining clubs, a statement from Sky perhaps saying it will not demand rebates would go a long way to strengthening their hands. Ideal scenario is the PL kicks them out and then it will be carnage.

I think a few things that haven't really been talked about yet but would do if they were to be kicked out of the league. Contracts would surely be voidable if the players chose to, not sure many would take that route but some would. Would theoretically no longer be eligible for World Cup and Euros.

Secondly, what happens when they play the first games and no-one wants to buy tickets from England. I really think they're over-estimating the loyalty of the match going fans who are currently starved of cash as it is. I think there will be plenty of TV watching fans happy to see this but don't think it will be as easy to fill the grounds. I know I wouldn't go if we were involved. Also, can't imagine you'll get many away fans, how many people can repeatedly afford midweek trips to Spain and Italy.

I think this will not actually happen but if it does it could be the best thing that's happened to football in years. Also, shame this didn't happen last year we might've gone up!

Interesting points Wassy. 

I wonder if lower league clubs will be receiving phone calls today explaining to them how much more money they will be receiving. As we know from our own recent history, if money's put on the table then people will vote for anything/anyone. There may be a few differing opinions when the cash is put on the table today.

I think that Sky's involvement in the British game is diminishing what with the likes of BT and Amazon becoming interested in broadcasting games. I've stopped my sky sports subscription as it was an expensive luxury. I'm sure lots of the others have too if I'm typical. Sky's response today will be interesting, as they fund the Premier League but will presumably be interested in showing the new games too.

Re players, I think it's money that matters to them and as such a lot of them wont give a S**t about not playing for their country. And let's be honest, if we were a gifted lad aged 16 or 17 what would our motivation be? Money and a glittering career, or playing for England, Wales, Montenegro etc.

And re tickets, let's face it, a ticket to watch a game isnt going to be £25 is it? You'll be looking at £50/60 quid minimum I would've thought. And the clubs will be selling season tickets for these new games which will be astronomical in cost. So to go to a game a family might be looking at £180/£200. Completely unsustainable for most family pockets.

Could be an opportunity for someone like Sky with foresight to back the domestic game aggressively and potentially be handsomely rewarded in the long term. Imagine how tiring it would be if Sky constantly were selling how they were the saviours of English football  Big Grin

I agree with above too this is needed, just as long as we don't get the situation where the EPL lets them stay in the league and be in both leagues.
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#56
(19-04-2021, 10:24 AM)stirred Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:18 AM)wassy04 Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:13 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: I won't be watching that's for sure.

Same and would likely boycott any media provider that signs up to it

You'd want to be able subscribe separately to our domestic league without the ESL, so we can vote with our wallets. i.e. not Sky bidding for everything and making us pay for a sub no matter what we want to watch. Would be interesting to see how it went that's for sure.

I kind of want it to happen, cos I think football needs a shake-up anyway. It's horribly distorted, so let them break it and it gives the chance to make anew.

I'm like you really. Football needs to change for sure and if this is the catalyst for change then so be it. I honestly don't care a jot about these big clubs, I don't watch premier league, or champions league football or have any interest in it at all. In this last week I was more interested in the result of Rotherham v Coventry than I was for Liverpool against Real Madrid.  So if they want to go away on their own then I say help yourself, do it, but you cant have your cake and eat it so it's up to you, you're a FIFA club or you're not.

If they do break away from FIFA, they could in effect then have their own rules. So maybe results could be subject to stewards enquiry perhaps if a goal or penalty was given that was not right. It'd piss fans int he ground off if they found out later that evenng that their win had been taken away but who gives a S**t about that? Or they might have their own back-pass rule, or offside rule. Or maybe Founder Members are given a one goal start on non founder members, to protect the integrity of the competition.
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#57
(19-04-2021, 10:43 AM)wassy04 Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:29 AM)Paplane Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:09 AM)wassy04 Wrote: I think this will be difficult to stop, most clubs are in increased debts due to the pandemic so extra rebates to the TV deals for a diluted PL would be difficult to overcome. They've timed it perfectly, all clubs in debt, no fans to protest. I think the PL will need to source outside funding to protect the remaining clubs, a statement from Sky perhaps saying it will not demand rebates would go a long way to strengthening their hands. Ideal scenario is the PL kicks them out and then it will be carnage.

I think a few things that haven't really been talked about yet but would do if they were to be kicked out of the league. Contracts would surely be voidable if the players chose to, not sure many would take that route but some would. Would theoretically no longer be eligible for World Cup and Euros.

Secondly, what happens when they play the first games and no-one wants to buy tickets from England. I really think they're over-estimating the loyalty of the match going fans who are currently starved of cash as it is. I think there will be plenty of TV watching fans happy to see this but don't think it will be as easy to fill the grounds. I know I wouldn't go if we were involved. Also, can't imagine you'll get many away fans, how many people can repeatedly afford midweek trips to Spain and Italy.

I think this will not actually happen but if it does it could be the best thing that's happened to football in years. Also, shame this didn't happen last year we might've gone up!

Interesting points Wassy. 

I wonder if lower league clubs will be receiving phone calls today explaining to them how much more money they will be receiving. As we know from our own recent history, if money's put on the table then people will vote for anything/anyone. There may be a few differing opinions when the cash is put on the table today.

I think that Sky's involvement in the British game is diminishing what with the likes of BT and Amazon becoming interested in broadcasting games. I've stopped my sky sports subscription as it was an expensive luxury. I'm sure lots of the others have too if I'm typical. Sky's response today will be interesting, as they fund the Premier League but will presumably be interested in showing the new games too.

Re players, I think it's money that matters to them and as such a lot of them wont give a S**t about not playing for their country. And let's be honest, if we were a gifted lad aged 16 or 17 what would our motivation be? Money and a glittering career, or playing for England, Wales, Montenegro etc.

And re tickets, let's face it, a ticket to watch a game isnt going to be £25 is it? You'll be looking at £50/60 quid minimum I would've thought. And the clubs will be selling season tickets for these new games which will be astronomical in cost. So to go to a game a family might be looking at £180/£200. Completely unsustainable for most family pockets.

Could be an opportunity for someone like Sky with foresight to back the domestic game aggressively and potentially be handsomely rewarded in the long term. Imagine how tiring it would be if Sky constantly were selling how they were the saviours of English football  Big Grin

I agree with above too this is needed, just as long as we don't get the situation where the EPL lets them stay in the league and be in both leagues.

We might find that the super league clubs dump the broadcasters and stream the games themselves so Sky could well take the side of the lower leagues if they feel their noses are being pushed out. I've read/heard comments from Carragher, Neville and Ferdinand this morning saying all the right things, which is suprising as they work for Sky & BT. But before they bleat any more, they should come and have a look at our club who have been restricted by a glass ceiling for 20 years and see how the current arrangement is working.
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#58
(19-04-2021, 10:50 AM)Paplane Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:43 AM)wassy04 Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:29 AM)Paplane Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:09 AM)wassy04 Wrote: I think this will be difficult to stop, most clubs are in increased debts due to the pandemic so extra rebates to the TV deals for a diluted PL would be difficult to overcome. They've timed it perfectly, all clubs in debt, no fans to protest. I think the PL will need to source outside funding to protect the remaining clubs, a statement from Sky perhaps saying it will not demand rebates would go a long way to strengthening their hands. Ideal scenario is the PL kicks them out and then it will be carnage.

I think a few things that haven't really been talked about yet but would do if they were to be kicked out of the league. Contracts would surely be voidable if the players chose to, not sure many would take that route but some would. Would theoretically no longer be eligible for World Cup and Euros.

Secondly, what happens when they play the first games and no-one wants to buy tickets from England. I really think they're over-estimating the loyalty of the match going fans who are currently starved of cash as it is. I think there will be plenty of TV watching fans happy to see this but don't think it will be as easy to fill the grounds. I know I wouldn't go if we were involved. Also, can't imagine you'll get many away fans, how many people can repeatedly afford midweek trips to Spain and Italy.

I think this will not actually happen but if it does it could be the best thing that's happened to football in years. Also, shame this didn't happen last year we might've gone up!

Interesting points Wassy. 

I wonder if lower league clubs will be receiving phone calls today explaining to them how much more money they will be receiving. As we know from our own recent history, if money's put on the table then people will vote for anything/anyone. There may be a few differing opinions when the cash is put on the table today.

I think that Sky's involvement in the British game is diminishing what with the likes of BT and Amazon becoming interested in broadcasting games. I've stopped my sky sports subscription as it was an expensive luxury. I'm sure lots of the others have too if I'm typical. Sky's response today will be interesting, as they fund the Premier League but will presumably be interested in showing the new games too.

Re players, I think it's money that matters to them and as such a lot of them wont give a S**t about not playing for their country. And let's be honest, if we were a gifted lad aged 16 or 17 what would our motivation be? Money and a glittering career, or playing for England, Wales, Montenegro etc.

And re tickets, let's face it, a ticket to watch a game isnt going to be £25 is it? You'll be looking at £50/60 quid minimum I would've thought. And the clubs will be selling season tickets for these new games which will be astronomical in cost. So to go to a game a family might be looking at £180/£200. Completely unsustainable for most family pockets.

Could be an opportunity for someone like Sky with foresight to back the domestic game aggressively and potentially be handsomely rewarded in the long term. Imagine how tiring it would be if Sky constantly were selling how they were the saviours of English football  Big Grin

I agree with above too this is needed, just as long as we don't get the situation where the EPL lets them stay in the league and be in both leagues.

We might find that the super league clubs dump the broadcasters and stream the games themselves so Sky could well take the side of the lower leagues if they feel their noses are being pushed out. I've read/heard comments from Carragher, Neville and Ferdinand this morning saying all the right things, which is suprising as they work for Sky & BT. But before they bleat any more, they should come and have a look at our club who have been restricted by a glass ceiling for 20 years and see how the current arrangement is working.

Yeah I'm not sure I trust the league in the hands of Everton, West Ham and Leicester either. It would be the perfect opportunity to finally remove parachute payments at a minimum and probably restructure to make the leagues smaller and introduce more financial controls.
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#59
(19-04-2021, 10:54 AM)wassy04 Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:50 AM)Paplane Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:43 AM)wassy04 Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:29 AM)Paplane Wrote:
(19-04-2021, 10:09 AM)wassy04 Wrote: I think this will be difficult to stop, most clubs are in increased debts due to the pandemic so extra rebates to the TV deals for a diluted PL would be difficult to overcome. They've timed it perfectly, all clubs in debt, no fans to protest. I think the PL will need to source outside funding to protect the remaining clubs, a statement from Sky perhaps saying it will not demand rebates would go a long way to strengthening their hands. Ideal scenario is the PL kicks them out and then it will be carnage.

I think a few things that haven't really been talked about yet but would do if they were to be kicked out of the league. Contracts would surely be voidable if the players chose to, not sure many would take that route but some would. Would theoretically no longer be eligible for World Cup and Euros.

Secondly, what happens when they play the first games and no-one wants to buy tickets from England. I really think they're over-estimating the loyalty of the match going fans who are currently starved of cash as it is. I think there will be plenty of TV watching fans happy to see this but don't think it will be as easy to fill the grounds. I know I wouldn't go if we were involved. Also, can't imagine you'll get many away fans, how many people can repeatedly afford midweek trips to Spain and Italy.

I think this will not actually happen but if it does it could be the best thing that's happened to football in years. Also, shame this didn't happen last year we might've gone up!

Interesting points Wassy. 

I wonder if lower league clubs will be receiving phone calls today explaining to them how much more money they will be receiving. As we know from our own recent history, if money's put on the table then people will vote for anything/anyone. There may be a few differing opinions when the cash is put on the table today.

I think that Sky's involvement in the British game is diminishing what with the likes of BT and Amazon becoming interested in broadcasting games. I've stopped my sky sports subscription as it was an expensive luxury. I'm sure lots of the others have too if I'm typical. Sky's response today will be interesting, as they fund the Premier League but will presumably be interested in showing the new games too.

Re players, I think it's money that matters to them and as such a lot of them wont give a S**t about not playing for their country. And let's be honest, if we were a gifted lad aged 16 or 17 what would our motivation be? Money and a glittering career, or playing for England, Wales, Montenegro etc.

And re tickets, let's face it, a ticket to watch a game isnt going to be £25 is it? You'll be looking at £50/60 quid minimum I would've thought. And the clubs will be selling season tickets for these new games which will be astronomical in cost. So to go to a game a family might be looking at £180/£200. Completely unsustainable for most family pockets.

Could be an opportunity for someone like Sky with foresight to back the domestic game aggressively and potentially be handsomely rewarded in the long term. Imagine how tiring it would be if Sky constantly were selling how they were the saviours of English football  Big Grin

I agree with above too this is needed, just as long as we don't get the situation where the EPL lets them stay in the league and be in both leagues.

We might find that the super league clubs dump the broadcasters and stream the games themselves so Sky could well take the side of the lower leagues if they feel their noses are being pushed out. I've read/heard comments from Carragher, Neville and Ferdinand this morning saying all the right things, which is suprising as they work for Sky & BT. But before they bleat any more, they should come and have a look at our club who have been restricted by a glass ceiling for 20 years and see how the current arrangement is working.

Yeah I'm not sure I trust the league in the hands of Everton, West Ham and Leicester either. It would be the perfect opportunity to finally remove parachute payments at a minimum and probably restructure to make the leagues smaller and introduce more financial controls.

If given the opportunity, every club will want to do what is the most beneficial to them. This is why we need a strong league structure run by a league which has the equal interest of Mansfield as it does Manchester United. Like you I cant see Everton and West Ham giving up their potential incomes without a fight. That's why intervention is required from the very top.
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#60
I don't know who this super league has employed to do their PR but we can say that the news of it's launch has been an unmitigated disaster. I've not read one single opinion in favour yet.
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