Millwall - Nottingham Forest
(12-07-2019, 02:24 PM)Alf Wrote: Great little Semedo summary that Zic.

Other players may be anonymous or poor, but Semedo on a bad day is like a bonus for them. I really hope we only use him as an off-the-bench option in coming games when needed. He's got goals & drive, but it's too risky starting him at the mo.

Never seen that before, made me laugh. Could do a similar one from last night.
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(12-07-2019, 05:55 PM)zicorice Wrote:
(12-07-2019, 02:24 PM)Alf Wrote: Great little Semedo summary that Zic.

Other players may be anonymous or poor, but Semedo on a bad day is like a bonus for them. I really hope we only use him as an off-the-bench option in coming games when needed. He's got goals & drive, but it's too risky starting him at the mo.

Never seen that before, made me laugh. Could do a similar one from last night.

Aye.

As the comment below the vid says "Jorge Mendes + Benfica =  € + overrated players"
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I m going to be controversial here, we r no where close to be a promotion chasing team. We suffer too much, even against mediocre teams and we dont even dominate enough, not even against poor teams.
Looking af thd table we r closer to.12th place then to 2nd, that shows you the gulf in consistency between a promotion chasing team nd mid table fodder.
If we dont do some really good business, this season will end up like the last one...
The positive surprises ( in performance) of this season are replacing those of last season nd not a top up.
To gain promotion, you need to improve all around and not improve in an area and drop a level in another.
This year the defence improved, the rest of the pitch is just average.
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i think the first goal last night was the softest goal we have conceded for a long, long time, considering the amount of defensive, solid units, height and defensive, aerial capacity in our starting team, well, to of conceded in the fashion we did.

Surely we could of had man for man marking and some zonal marking as well, but there fella was in the prime danger area, noone really challenging him, uncontested header.

Just unfortunate but their 1st goal really shouldn't of happened and made a difficult night much harder

I think criticism of Mir is unfair, he didn't really get any supply at all, no corners or crosses and the freekicks didn't really trouble anyone, i think he is extremely enthusiastic and desperate to do well. It's not like he had anything vaguely gilt edged in all the time he has been on the pitch. Grabban was brilliant last night but it does help coming in fresh with only half hour to go and up against tired players

Grabban and Lolley were fantastic, i think these players are often better coming off the bench and i always felt it was the plan to finish strongly, barring the soft 1st goal, the plan worked perfectly, despite the very poor 1st half
In a tree by the brook, there's a songbird who sings, sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven COYR's
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Psych ... player that score their first goal was meant to be marked by Semedo... once the corner was taken the Millwal player moved a couple of meters but Semedo remained where he was ... having Dawson back in heart of defence I expected better ....even on the second, our defence were slow to react nd two Millwall players ended up in front of Samba to take the opportunity...
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(12-07-2019, 08:17 PM)Maltared Wrote: I m going to be controversial here, we r no where close to be a promotion chasing team. We suffer too much, even against mediocre teams and we dont even dominate enough, not even against poor teams.
Looking af thd table we r closer to.12th place then to 2nd, that shows you the gulf in consistency between a promotion chasing team nd mid table fodder.
If we dont do some really good business, this season will end up like the last one...
The positive surprises ( in performance)  of this season are replacing those of last season nd not a top up.
To gain promotion, you need to improve all around and not improve in an area and drop a level in another.
This year the defence improved, the rest of the pitch is just average

I think our first 11 is promotion material......just.

Our frontline is average, but that's only because of the lack of depth. Grabban's as good as any other forward in this league.

Midfield lacks a few ingredients, but overall it's good.

Get a quality winger, good alternate forward, and physical DM to backup Sow alongside Yates, and we'll be challenging.
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Cash and Lolley work well on the right, we fail on the left. Ameobi is good, but not good enough. Robinson is good, Ribiero is better.

We need a solid fast attacking winger (better than Albert or Ameobi) in January - if possible two of them to allow Lolley to be rested sometimes.

We also need another striker to complement Grabban.

Three additions needed.
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(12-07-2019, 09:56 PM)Alf Wrote:
(12-07-2019, 08:17 PM)Maltared Wrote: I m going to be controversial here, we r no where close to be a promotion chasing team. We suffer too much, even against mediocre teams and we dont even dominate enough, not even against poor teams.
Looking af thd table we r closer to.12th place then to 2nd, that shows you the gulf in consistency between a promotion chasing team nd mid table fodder.
If we dont do some really good business, this season will end up like the last one...
The positive surprises ( in performance)  of this season are replacing those of last season nd not a top up.
To gain promotion, you need to improve all around and not improve in an area and drop a level in another.
This year the defence improved, the rest of the pitch is just average

I think our first 11 is promotion material......just.

Our frontline is average, but that's only because of the lack of depth. Grabban's as good as any other forward in this league.

Midfield lacks a few ingredients, but overall it's good.

Get a quality winger, good alternate forward, and physical DM to backup Sow alongside Yates, and we'll be challenging.

Beat me to the punch. Grabban as good as any striker in this league, barring 27 million quid worth of Fulham CF.
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Sometimes, you guys are unbelievable. Had Forest managed to hold on for just 3 more minutes all would have been good. Instead it is all starting to fall apart - again.

Please keep in mind that Semedo is just coming back from an injury and will need time to settle in again. He would most likely not have played if Yates or Sow had been available. Mir probably needs more time but as things stands I don't believe Forest have any more time to give him. We urgently need at least one more striker who can compete with Grabs. 

Both goals should have been avoided. The first one was an unchallenged header where either Semedo or Mir lost their marking. As for the second one, I believe the shot got a slight deflection and Samba did good in making the save but the Millwall player should not have been allowed to shot in the first place. Either Watson or Silva should have been closing him down.

As for the formation in first half. I don't believe it was the wrong formation as such but more a case of the players not being able to execute. I haven't been able to see the replay yet but my basic impression was that we didn't play with wing backs in the first half. Both Cash and Robinson played as conventional full backs resulting in Forest having 5 players in defense and too few in midfield. Even though Forest had 3 CBs both FB went narrow in defense leaving too much room on the flanks as we didn't have any wingers to help them out there (as is the case when we play 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1). 

So my theory would be that if Forest had managed to deploy Cash and Robinson as true wing backs combined with a bit more urgency in midfield Forest would have managed to push Millwall back and Millwall would have been forced to go route one which our CBs would have managed to deal with quite easily. I believe it was a valuable lesson for SL.
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(12-07-2019, 11:51 PM)JWJW Wrote: Cash and Lolley work well on the right, we fail on the left.  Ameobi is good, but not good enough. Robinson is good, Ribiero is better.

We need a solid fast attacking winger (better than Albert or Ameobi) in January - if possible two of them to allow Lolley to be rested sometimes.

We also need another striker to complement Grabban.

Three additions needed.

Ameobi's good enough against physical sides lacking quality, he's just not pacey enough against other sides.

Don't think it's about "good enough" per say (although he does lack quality), just think we need a different option. One with more quality & pace.

Would also help if we'd a decent target man too. Adomah always gets decent crosses into the box, but Grabs is easily dwarfed, and Mir's a gimp. Lolley's header against Derby is something we should have as an option each week from Adomah, but we haven't a forward with the height or quality to make it count regularly enough.
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(12-08-2019, 09:37 AM)GaribaldiRED Wrote: Sometimes, you guys are unbelievable. Had Forest managed to hold on for just 3 more minutes all would have been good. Instead it is all starting to fall apart - again.

Please keep in mind that Semedo is just coming back from an injury and will need time to settle in again. He would most likely not have played if Yates or Sow had been available. Mir probably needs more time but as things stands I don't believe Forest have any more time to give him. We urgently need at least one more striker who can compete with Grabs. 

Both goals should have been avoided. The first one was an unchallenged header where either Semedo or Mir lost their marking. As for the second one, I believe the shot got a slight deflection and Samba did good in making the save but the Millwall player should not have been allowed to shot in the first place. Either Watson or Silva should have been closing him down.

As for the formation in first half. I don't believe it was the wrong formation as such but more a case of the players not being able to execute. I haven't been able to see the replay yet but my basic impression was that we didn't play with wing backs in the first half. Both Cash and Robinson played as conventional full backs resulting in Forest having 5 players in defense and too few in midfield. Even though Forest had 3 CBs both FB went narrow in defense leaving too much room on the flanks as we didn't have any wingers to help them out there (as is the case when we play 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1). 

So my theory would be that if Forest had managed to deploy Cash and Robinson as true wing backs combined with a bit more urgency in midfield Forest would have managed to push Millwall back and Millwall would have been forced to go route one which our CBs would have managed to deal with quite easily. I believe it was a valuable lesson for SL.

Yates back, Sow back soon so things  not falling apart although it is December so let's wait and see.

Semedo was struggling before he got injured. We have some games coming up against footballing sides, which should suit us more. 

"You guys" is a bit of a generalisation. No team can live up to Maltareds expectations. If we win 5-1 he would be saying if we can't keep a clean sheet we don't deserve promotion. But that's football. Opinions are like ar$eholes, we all have one. Our first XI of
Samba
Cash
Riberio
Dawson
Worrall
Watson
Sow or Yates
Silva or Carvalho
Lolley 
Ameobi or Albert
Grabban.

Is good enough to win any game in this league. The "or" players depends on form.
Figs and Robinson are ok but down grades. Semedo has something someimes going forward. Not sure about Jenkinson  but a down grade on cash. 

So, like Norwich last year, we need untold luck with injuries and stupid suspensions (so far not happening...) or investment in Jan. 

Hopefully December doesn't derail our challenge.........yet again.
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what i liked was the way things changed 2nd half, the momentum was building nicely, even prior to LOlley and Grabbans introduction, some exceptionally good play a for a few minutes prior to the first goal

i loved the corner routine, Big Joe at the far post powering the ball back into the mix precisely for Grabban to bury at point blank.

We have seen this routine before but hope we can get back to converting alot more from corners.

This is a positive post so won't mention set pieces, suffice to say, they can only improve, which has to be a good thing
In a tree by the brook, there's a songbird who sings, sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven COYR's
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(12-07-2019, 08:17 PM)Maltared Wrote: I m going to be controversial here, we r no where close to be a promotion chasing team. We suffer too much, even against mediocre teams and we dont even dominate enough, not even against poor teams.
Looking af thd table we r closer to.12th place then to 2nd, that shows you the gulf in consistency between a promotion chasing team nd mid table fodder.
If we dont do some really good business, this season will end up like the last one...
The positive surprises ( in performance)  of this season are replacing those of last season nd not a top up.
To gain promotion, you need to improve all around and not improve in an area and drop a level in another.
This year the defence improved, the rest of the pitch is just average.

I don't think that is controversial.  One could nod their head in agreement with most of it.

Forest are a team in transition.  And on course to either drop out the play offs or suffer an ignominious defeat in the play offs.  Either of which would be progress if they finish higher than last year.  Which seems likely.

The convincing thrashing of Birmingham and QPR are blips on otherwise close results which probably owe as much to the 'The Coach' as it does our players.  And the moment Forest try 'something different' then the wheels come off.  See: Millwall.  See: Wigan.  ie.  Forest aren't terribly convincing in terms of a top 2 chasing team.  They're somewhat short of that.  Hull.  Wigan.  Millwall (given far too much respect.)  Cardiff.  Nothing special there and Forest have picked up 1 point from that lot?

The momentum is upwards.  The improvement is there as reflected in the league position.  The squad building isn't finished.

WBA, Leeds, (the former two being very convincing...) Fulham have been more stable and better run AND more consistent for longer.  Two of the them have been in the Premier with all the wealth and investment that entails.  

Funnily enough, they're above Forest.

Forest are 3 players short.  DCM *(Yes.  Not just saying that in part to the fact of replaying to Malta.)  It's an area that has been a running sore for 20 years.  Frequently get over run there allowing other teams to do the Cardiff or Millwall on 'us.'  That would provide the fulcrum for Car or Silva to do what must be done instead of trying to shoe horn them in other roles.  Watson being our 'best player' in CM was no victory. It only served to highlight the deficiency there with the rest of the midfield. Depending on Lolley to come back in to the side. And only forlorn hopes of Yates coming back off his rash suspension and Sow's 'eternal' injury. A winger, certainly.  And a striker.

Forest need class.  Consistency.  A step up in quality in certain areas.  Not squad fillers.  Even if that upsets one or two.

Power.  Pace.  Guile.  Goals.  Battle hardened leadership in those areas.  Not just at the back.  But in the centre.  On the wings.  Up front.  Players who can make a nuisance of themselves.  As Tomlin did in the lead up to the Cardiff goal which he supplied the ammo for.

Will 3 more players do it?  We'll see.  Some may argue for another ACM that can impose a match winning mentality on the team on the front line.  

SA.
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(12-08-2019, 11:49 AM)zicorice Wrote:
(12-08-2019, 09:37 AM)GaribaldiRED Wrote: Sometimes, you guys are unbelievable. Had Forest managed to hold on for just 3 more minutes all would have been good. Instead it is all starting to fall apart - again.

Please keep in mind that Semedo is just coming back from an injury and will need time to settle in again. He would most likely not have played if Yates or Sow had been available. Mir probably needs more time but as things stands I don't believe Forest have any more time to give him. We urgently need at least one more striker who can compete with Grabs. 

Both goals should have been avoided. The first one was an unchallenged header where either Semedo or Mir lost their marking. As for the second one, I believe the shot got a slight deflection and Samba did good in making the save but the Millwall player should not have been allowed to shot in the first place. Either Watson or Silva should have been closing him down.

As for the formation in first half. I don't believe it was the wrong formation as such but more a case of the players not being able to execute. I haven't been able to see the replay yet but my basic impression was that we didn't play with wing backs in the first half. Both Cash and Robinson played as conventional full backs resulting in Forest having 5 players in defense and too few in midfield. Even though Forest had 3 CBs both FB went narrow in defense leaving too much room on the flanks as we didn't have any wingers to help them out there (as is the case when we play 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-4-1). 

So my theory would be that if Forest had managed to deploy Cash and Robinson as true wing backs combined with a bit more urgency in midfield Forest would have managed to push Millwall back and Millwall would have been forced to go route one which our CBs would have managed to deal with quite easily. I believe it was a valuable lesson for SL.

Yates back, Sow back soon so things  not falling apart although it is December so let's wait and see.

Semedo was struggling before he got injured. We have some games coming up against footballing sides, which should suit us more. 

"You guys" is a bit of a generalisation. No team can live up to Maltareds expectations. If we win 5-1 he would be saying if we can't keep a clean sheet we don't deserve promotion. But that's football. Opinions are like ar$eholes, we all have one. Our first XI of
Samba
Cash
Riberio
Dawson
Worrall
Watson
Sow or Yates
Silva or Carvalho
Lolley 
Ameobi or Albert
Grabban.

Is good enough to win any game in this league. The "or" players depends on form.
Figs and Robinson are ok but down grades. Semedo has something someimes going forward. Not sure about Jenkinson  but a down grade on cash. 

So, like Norwich last year, we need untold luck with injuries and stupid suspensions (so far not happening...) or investment in Jan. 

Hopefully December doesn't derail our challenge.........yet again.

Yes.

SA.  Cool
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Not going to panic. Would have taken a point. Still in strong position for play offs even if top two might look a bit more fanciful. But still lots of football to be played.

Side is still performing miles ahead of what I expected back in August.

Just gonna enjoy the ride while it lasts.
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