2020/21 Season: Could We See A Change In Playing Style?

[wassy04]

Lots of talk of a permanent switch to 352 in preseason, bit of a gamble given how bad we looked playing it last year. I guess it'll be good to have two systems that we can use though if they do manage to master it.

Assuming Cash goes, something like:

Samba
Worrall Figs Blackett
Darikwa (my choice probs be jenks) Ribeiro
Colback Sow/Fred
Lolley/Carv
Grabban Taylor

Feels like we'd have a lot of depth playing this tactic and would allow for a number 10 so could get Carv more involved. Not sure where Sammi would play though

[Strawberry Avenger]

Players do win you games but choosing the best system to implement can drastically increase or decrease your chances of winning the game. The intention for this thread was after all to discuss the possibility of changing our basic set up / formation / playing style so in that sense it do matter what you believe  :D

And I think we tend to overreact a bit regarding last season performance. We didn't lose out on 6th place on points but on one single goal but I do agree that we need better players as I do believe that we should aim for a top 2 finish this coming season.

There aint no over reacting regarding last season's collapse.  It was shocking.  Spineless.  A complete collapse.  A gutless final match had Forest thrown unceremoniously out the play offs.

A stress fracture that came to pass as the imperious talisman, Sow...just sat down on the grass.

Forest didn't have the players to do top 6.  When Sow failed.  So did Forest.  Both their top 6 runs coincided with a fit Sow.

Counter attacking football is alright.  Clough and Taylor managed it.  But it was also direct and robust.  They had great players.  They got recruitment right.

The new regime are still coming round to the dawning realisation that this is the Championship and English weather has winters, rain...dark nights...a wed/sat/wed schedule.

Forest need to recruit for any given style they play.  With depth for more than a fit 1st eleven.

That will involved some muck and nettles players.  Athletes who had last 97 minutes.  And yes.  They need to play a bit too.

Character.  Not enough of that in the side.  A low 'Psycho' count.

SA.

The problem is.............where are these players you say we need? How much would each one cost? Are they even available? 

We all know what is needed, but what we want and need and what we can actually afford or obtain are two entirely different things.  :s

It appears we have found them.

5 and counting.

Likely another 3-4 to come in.

It appears we can afford them too.

With room to spare from the '£12 million' sale of Cash.

SA.

[ThePromisedLand]

Lots of talk of a permanent switch to 352 in preseason, bit of a gamble given how bad we looked playing it last year. I guess it'll be good to have two systems that we can use though if they do manage to master it.

Assuming Cash goes, something like:

Samba
Worrall Figs Blackett
Darikwa (my choice probs be jenks) Ribeiro
Colback Sow/Fred
Lolley/Carv
Grabban Taylor

Feels like we'd have a lot of depth playing this tactic and would allow for a number 10 so could get Carv more involved. Not sure where Sammi would play though

No starting place for Freeman?

[wassy04]

Lots of talk of a permanent switch to 352 in preseason, bit of a gamble given how bad we looked playing it last year. I guess it'll be good to have two systems that we can use though if they do manage to master it.

Assuming Cash goes, something like:

Samba
Worrall Figs Blackett
Darikwa (my choice probs be jenks) Ribeiro
Colback Sow/Fred
Lolley/Carv
Grabban Taylor

Feels like we'd have a lot of depth playing this tactic and would allow for a number 10 so could get Carv more involved. Not sure where Sammi would play though

No starting place for Freeman?

Oh yeah haha forgot about him, seems like we'd have a lot of central midfield options if we're playing 352 then. Not even mentioned Da Costa who I guess is backup striker in this tactic. Great to have so many options

[optimistic_red]

I think Sabri knows we are currently predictable. If he has 2 options its harder for teams to prep against us. I imagine 352 will be used in some situations and 4141/4231 in others

[PsychoStanleyStone]

I think Sabri knows we are currently predictable. If he has 2 options its harder for teams to prep against us. I imagine 352 will be used in some situations and 4141/4231 in others

i'd love a team to be able to play many variants, a signal to play at higher tempo or slow it down or play out from the back or go long ball, just more variation even just for 5 or 10 minutes, we probably did it but some clever stuff where we play a particular ball, possibly badly/predictably where the opposition anticipate it but we do it differant and fool them, that sort of thing.  I certainly felt last season I saw the same game 40 times, a bit harsh, but so many parts of so many games we just didn't have the ball at all and any influence on any of it, headless chickens stuff, ah, i'm still suffering depression aren't I?

[Sabricadabra]

We didn’t play the same game every week, far from it, although the approach was predominantly counterattacking. The Derby match after lockdown was a good example of Sabri tactically outwitting his opponent by varying our approach several times during the 90. If our players hadn’t squandered several good chances we would have comfortably won.
Employing a low block defence to entice the other team forward so that spaces can be exploited on the counter means risking losing possession rather than attempting to keep the ball. When we had it we often quickly attacked opponents with long passes and by rapidly carrying the ball forward. Such an approach meant putting the ball at risk rather than playing safe and attempting to keep it.

[GaribaldiRED]

We didn’t play the same game every week, far from it, although the approach was predominantly counterattacking. The Derby match after lockdown was a good example of Sabri tactically outwitting his opponent by varying our approach several times during the 90. If our players hadn’t squandered several good chances we would have comfortably won.
Employing a low block defence to entice the other team forward so that spaces can be exploited on the counter means risking losing possession rather than attempting to keep the ball. When we had it we often quickly attacked opponents with long passes and by rapidly carrying the ball forward. Such an approach meant putting the ball at risk rather than playing safe and attempting to keep it.

Yes Sabricadabra, I'm glad you posted this because that is exactly how i see at well.

Sabri do want to keep a low compact defensive structure and I don't believe that that will change next season. But when that is said we did manage to vary how and when we did press the opposition. The Derby game is a great example. In that game we did at times press very high up the pitch which rattled Derby to some extent but it also opened up space between our lines which I believe a better team could and would have exploited. When that is said I remember at the time I watch the game that I thought that it was Da Costa that started the high press and the rest had to follow so I'm not entirely sure that Sabri has instructed this. Either way it work very well.

As I have written in this thread before, I believe our biggest issue last season when forming the low compact defensive block was that we in some games became passive in ou press which opened up space and resulted in the opposition being able to create too many dangerous situations. Hopefully this will not be the case this season with the added players (especially in the midfield area). Fixing this issue could easily result in 5-10 less goals conceded and would most likely give us an addition 8-10 points. Scoring more goals is not the only way of securing success.

[wassy04]

We didn’t play the same game every week, far from it, although the approach was predominantly counterattacking. The Derby match after lockdown was a good example of Sabri tactically outwitting his opponent by varying our approach several times during the 90. If our players hadn’t squandered several good chances we would have comfortably won.
Employing a low block defence to entice the other team forward so that spaces can be exploited on the counter means risking losing possession rather than attempting to keep the ball. When we had it we often quickly attacked opponents with long passes and by rapidly carrying the ball forward. Such an approach meant putting the ball at risk rather than playing safe and attempting to keep it.

Yes Sabricadabra, I'm glad you posted this because that is exactly how i see at well.

Sabri do want to keep a low compact defensive structure and I don't believe that that will change next season. But when that is said we did manage to vary how and when we did press the opposition. The Derby game is a great example. In that game we did at times press very high up the pitch which rattled Derby to some extent but it also opened up space between our lines which I believe a better team could and would have exploited. When that is said I remember at the time I watch the game that I thought that it was Da Costa that started the high press and the rest had to follow so I'm not entirely sure that Sabri has instructed this. Either way it work very well.

As I have written in this thread before, I believe our biggest issue last season when forming the low compact defensive block was that we in some games became passive in ou press which opened up space and resulted in the opposition being able to create too many dangerous situations. Hopefully this will not be the case this season with the added players (especially in the midfield area). Fixing this issue could easily result in 5-10 less goals conceded and would most likely give us an addition 8-10 points. Scoring more goals is not the only way of securing success.

Be interested to know how you think the proposed change in shape to 352 will help this? Particularly given the failings when we tried it last year.

[GaribaldiRED]

We didn’t play the same game every week, far from it, although the approach was predominantly counterattacking. The Derby match after lockdown was a good example of Sabri tactically outwitting his opponent by varying our approach several times during the 90. If our players hadn’t squandered several good chances we would have comfortably won.
Employing a low block defence to entice the other team forward so that spaces can be exploited on the counter means risking losing possession rather than attempting to keep the ball. When we had it we often quickly attacked opponents with long passes and by rapidly carrying the ball forward. Such an approach meant putting the ball at risk rather than playing safe and attempting to keep it.

Yes Sabricadabra, I'm glad you posted this because that is exactly how i see at well.

Sabri do want to keep a low compact defensive structure and I don't believe that that will change next season. But when that is said we did manage to vary how and when we did press the opposition. The Derby game is a great example. In that game we did at times press very high up the pitch which rattled Derby to some extent but it also opened up space between our lines which I believe a better team could and would have exploited. When that is said I remember at the time I watch the game that I thought that it was Da Costa that started the high press and the rest had to follow so I'm not entirely sure that Sabri has instructed this. Either way it work very well.

As I have written in this thread before, I believe our biggest issue last season when forming the low compact defensive block was that we in some games became passive in ou press which opened up space and resulted in the opposition being able to create too many dangerous situations. Hopefully this will not be the case this season with the added players (especially in the midfield area). Fixing this issue could easily result in 5-10 less goals conceded and would most likely give us an addition 8-10 points. Scoring more goals is not the only way of securing success.

Be interested to know how you think the proposed change in shape to 352 will help this? Particularly given the failings when we tried it last year.

I'm actually not too fussed about what we call the formation we play. The important part for me is which players we have on the pitch and what responsibility they have. 

If we are adding 1 CB and want to have back 3 then I believe you need one of the CB to be a proper ball player who are able to pass the ball both short and long. Furthermore I believe that at least one of the CB should have good pace and hence be able to sweep to add a bit of security.

Moving the 2 FB up into midfield requires that you have the players able to handle the more advanced responsibility. I believe both Ribeiro and Cash are capable of doing that but I doubt that Jenkinson, Darikwa and Blackett are ideal suited to handling a midfield role. Mayne Bong is but I don't know too much about him. With are really strong CH on the right hand side with useful pace maybe Lolley could play on the right side of midfield instead of Cash in this formation.

The next question would be if you are going to have 2 or 3 more midfielders hence either a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-3 or 3-4-1-2. Getting hold of Colback and Fred have strengthened our midfield option. I guess Watson will move on but it looks like Silva will stay which I believe is a good thing. All in all we have the flexibility in midfield to handle all the scenarios above.

We have also strengthened the attacking options and we currently have Grabban, Taylor, Da Costa, Freeman, Ameobi, Mighten, Johnson with both Lolley and Silva also able to play further up the field as well. These players would either cover 2 or 3 attacking roles depending on the formation.

The two times we played a back 3 last season were a result of us missing important players so I wouldn't pay too much attention to what happened then. If we are to play with 3 at the back it is really important that we are able to move the FB further up the pitch and not end up playing with a back 5. 

My ideal set up with a back 3 would be:

                 Samba

      Figs     Worrall   Blackett

Lolley   Fred    Colback   Ribeiro

    Ameobi   Grabban  Freeman

Or maybe:

                 Samba


      Figs     Worrall   Blackett

Lolley   Fred    Colback   Ribeiro

               Freeman

           Taylor   Grabban  

[Strawberry Avenger]

We didn’t play the same game every week, far from it, although the approach was predominantly counterattacking. The Derby match after lockdown was a good example of Sabri tactically outwitting his opponent by varying our approach several times during the 90. If our players hadn’t squandered several good chances we would have comfortably won.
Employing a low block defence to entice the other team forward so that spaces can be exploited on the counter means risking losing possession rather than attempting to keep the ball. When we had it we often quickly attacked opponents with long passes and by rapidly carrying the ball forward. Such an approach meant putting the ball at risk rather than playing safe and attempting to keep it.

Yes Sabricadabra, I'm glad you posted this because that is exactly how i see at well.

Sabri do want to keep a low compact defensive structure and I don't believe that that will change next season. But when that is said we did manage to vary how and when we did press the opposition. The Derby game is a great example. In that game we did at times press very high up the pitch which rattled Derby to some extent but it also opened up space between our lines which I believe a better team could and would have exploited. When that is said I remember at the time I watch the game that I thought that it was Da Costa that started the high press and the rest had to follow so I'm not entirely sure that Sabri has instructed this. Either way it work very well.

As I have written in this thread before, I believe our biggest issue last season when forming the low compact defensive block was that we in some games became passive in ou press which opened up space and resulted in the opposition being able to create too many dangerous situations. Hopefully this will not be the case this season with the added players (especially in the midfield area). Fixing this issue could easily result in 5-10 less goals conceded and would most likely give us an addition 8-10 points. Scoring more goals is not the only way of securing success.

Be interested to know how you think the proposed change in shape to 352 will help this? Particularly given the failings when we tried it last year.

I'm actually not too fussed about what we call the formation we play. The important part for me is which players we have on the pitch and what responsibility they have. 

If we are adding 1 CB and want to have back 3 then I believe you need one of the CB to be a proper ball player who are able to pass the ball both short and long. Furthermore I believe that at least one of the CB should have good pace and hence be able to sweep to add a bit of security.

Moving the 2 FB up into midfield requires that you have the players able to handle the more advanced responsibility. I believe both Ribeiro and Cash are capable of doing that but I doubt that Jenkinson, Darikwa and Blackett are ideal suited to handling a midfield role. Mayne Bong is but I don't know too much about him. With are really strong CH on the right hand side with useful pace maybe Lolley could play on the right side of midfield instead of Cash in this formation.

The next question would be if you are going to have 2 or 3 more midfielders hence either a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-3 or 3-4-1-2. Getting hold of Colback and Fred have strengthened our midfield option. I guess Watson will move on but it looks like Silva will stay which I believe is a good thing. All in all we have the flexibility in midfield to handle all the scenarios above.

We have also strengthened the attacking options and we currently have Grabban, Taylor, Da Costa, Freeman, Ameobi, Mighten, Johnson with both Lolley and Silva also able to play further up the field as well. These players would either cover 2 or 3 attacking roles depending on the formation.

The two times we played a back 3 last season were a result of us missing important players so I wouldn't pay too much attention to what happened then. If we are to play with 3 at the back it is really important that we are able to move the FB further up the pitch and not end up playing with a back 5. 

My ideal set up with a back 3 would be:

                 Samba

      Figs     Worrall   Blackett

Lolley   Fred    Colback   Ribeiro

    Ameobi   Grabban  Freeman

Or maybe:

                 Samba


      Figs     Worrall   Blackett

Lolley   Fred    Colback   Ribeiro

               Freeman

           Taylor   Grabban  

Two interesting team selections.  The midfield to striking area seems stronger as a result of recruitment.  Or through the centre, rather.

Wingback to wide areas. *circumspect look. Lolley isn't fully fit. Rib had a chance further forward and didn't convince?

Feel that we need to bring in another winger.  CH and a 'target' man to increase the 'mix.'

Not entirely convinced.  And that could be...due....to...  Recruitment seems in complete so far.

But it seems Forest are recruiting to give The Coach more options as per your theories on playing style options.

We do have Sow, Yates and Adomah to add to that. Maybe Brennan. Mighten. And one or two other Academy lads.

SA.

[ThePromisedLand]

We didn’t play the same game every week, far from it, although the approach was predominantly counterattacking. The Derby match after lockdown was a good example of Sabri tactically outwitting his opponent by varying our approach several times during the 90. If our players hadn’t squandered several good chances we would have comfortably won.
Employing a low block defence to entice the other team forward so that spaces can be exploited on the counter means risking losing possession rather than attempting to keep the ball. When we had it we often quickly attacked opponents with long passes and by rapidly carrying the ball forward. Such an approach meant putting the ball at risk rather than playing safe and attempting to keep it.

Yes Sabricadabra, I'm glad you posted this because that is exactly how i see at well.

Sabri do want to keep a low compact defensive structure and I don't believe that that will change next season. But when that is said we did manage to vary how and when we did press the opposition. The Derby game is a great example. In that game we did at times press very high up the pitch which rattled Derby to some extent but it also opened up space between our lines which I believe a better team could and would have exploited. When that is said I remember at the time I watch the game that I thought that it was Da Costa that started the high press and the rest had to follow so I'm not entirely sure that Sabri has instructed this. Either way it work very well.

As I have written in this thread before, I believe our biggest issue last season when forming the low compact defensive block was that we in some games became passive in ou press which opened up space and resulted in the opposition being able to create too many dangerous situations. Hopefully this will not be the case this season with the added players (especially in the midfield area). Fixing this issue could easily result in 5-10 less goals conceded and would most likely give us an addition 8-10 points. Scoring more goals is not the only way of securing success.

Be interested to know how you think the proposed change in shape to 352 will help this? Particularly given the failings when we tried it last year.

I'm actually not too fussed about what we call the formation we play. The important part for me is which players we have on the pitch and what responsibility they have. 

If we are adding 1 CB and want to have back 3 then I believe you need one of the CB to be a proper ball player who are able to pass the ball both short and long. Furthermore I believe that at least one of the CB should have good pace and hence be able to sweep to add a bit of security.

Moving the 2 FB up into midfield requires that you have the players able to handle the more advanced responsibility. I believe both Ribeiro and Cash are capable of doing that but I doubt that Jenkinson, Darikwa and Blackett are ideal suited to handling a midfield role. Mayne Bong is but I don't know too much about him. With are really strong CH on the right hand side with useful pace maybe Lolley could play on the right side of midfield instead of Cash in this formation.

The next question would be if you are going to have 2 or 3 more midfielders hence either a 3-5-2 or a 3-4-3 or 3-4-1-2. Getting hold of Colback and Fred have strengthened our midfield option. I guess Watson will move on but it looks like Silva will stay which I believe is a good thing. All in all we have the flexibility in midfield to handle all the scenarios above.

We have also strengthened the attacking options and we currently have Grabban, Taylor, Da Costa, Freeman, Ameobi, Mighten, Johnson with both Lolley and Silva also able to play further up the field as well. These players would either cover 2 or 3 attacking roles depending on the formation.

The two times we played a back 3 last season were a result of us missing important players so I wouldn't pay too much attention to what happened then. If we are to play with 3 at the back it is really important that we are able to move the FB further up the pitch and not end up playing with a back 5. 

My ideal set up with a back 3 would be:

                 Samba

      Figs     Worrall   Blackett

Lolley   Fred    Colback   Ribeiro

    Ameobi   Grabban  Freeman

Or maybe:

                 Samba


      Figs     Worrall   Blackett

Lolley   Fred    Colback   Ribeiro

               Freeman

           Taylor   Grabban  

I’m liking the second option Gari...