Karanka v MON & Keane

[Username]

I disagree, MON inherited a squad that we are repeatedly told had £25m worth investment on that in situ when Aitor arrived.

It was pretty much a full squad to choose from today barring Dawson, Darwika and Figgy.

[Strawberry Avenger]

I disagree, MON inherited a squad that we are repeatedly told had £25m worth investment on that in situ when Aitor arrived.

It was pretty much a full squad to choose from today barring Dawson, Darwika and Figgy.

But he didn't inherit a full squad.

Grabban has had 6 weeks out with injury.  He was injured when we bought him?  He didn't inherit a Portuguese contingent at the top of their game.  The experiment was over long before Martin arrived.

Gonzo.  Dias.  Were 'done' well under Aitor.  Soudani.  Knee.  That's out for the season.  Car'?  Promising under the warm Summer sun.  Now?  Mere shadow and was months before Martin arrived.

That's 5 players which cost the best part of £20 million.  There's your attacking line up.  There's your Summer recruitment of midfield wingers, acm and key striker right there.  Most of it unproven.  The one that was proven?  Bought injured, needs managing and when it flares up?  Can't play.  That's what happens when you depend on 'one' striker to last the whole Championship season.  (Delusional in the extreme.  Aitor and club recruitment need a hard look at themselves for that one.)

A club can't afford to put £20 million into four unproven players and one injured player.  They're done.  Fried.  Caput.

So, Martin didn't inherit that.  He inherited a failed experiment of 3 players and two injured ones.  That's no inheritance in any realistic sense.

We brought in a 33-35 CH in Dawson.  Flogged him.  He got injured (hmm...old players getting injured week in, week out...what could go wrong?)

I'll credit Martin for bringing in the CHs over January.  But there was no way you could replace our Summer '5' in those key positions in January.  Not unless you're Chelsea and Man City and got money to burn.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

He didn't inherit the former.

But he did fix the latter in terms of CHs.

(Though he should have played Milo yesterday instead of Wraggy. And yes, Robinson at LB.)

SA.

[Alf]

It's also a squad which AK built to suit his way.

The true comparison would be to look at AK and see how he did when he inherited a side which someone else built, and again that was 9 defeats and finishing 17th.

Folk moan about MON dropping Carva, well what about AK dropping then 10 goal Kieron Dowell, who now sits in 2nd place with Sheff U?

A manager needs his own squad. Personally, results wise, I think MON has done well with what he's inherited. When AK was in the same position, like MON, he dropped the then on-form AM & reverted to hoofing. But unlike MON he didn't get results, and didn't have us in the top 10.

[Username]

Dowell played nine games under AK without scoring.

[Spangles]

We have now lost more league games (6) post Aitor than when he was here.

In those six games we’ve lost to Reading, Bristol City, Stoke, Birmingham, Villa and Rotherham.

And we still have six games to play.

Not great is it.
The football is that bad i'll be surprised if we win another game this season.

[Alf]

Dowell played nine games under AK without scoring.

Exactly. Carva has played 8 under MON and scored 1.

[Strawberry Avenger]

It's also a squad which AK built to suit his way.

The true comparison would be to look at AK and see how he did when he inherited a side which someone else built, and again that was 9 defeats and finishing 17th.

Folk moan about MON dropping Carva, well what about AK dropping then 10 goal Kieron Dowell, who now sits in 2nd place with Sheff U?

A manager needs his own squad. Personally, results wise, I think MON has done well with what he's inherited. When AK was in the same position, like MON, he dropped the then on-form AM & reverted to hoofing. But unlike MON he didn't get results, and didn't have us in the top 10.

Excellent points, Alf.

No flies on you. ;)

Yeah.  Aitor dropped Kieron like a stone and he'd scored way more goals than £13.5 million Car'.  And yes, 2nd place with Sheff U.  Aitor was crashing and burning with Warburton's team.  (At least MoN is making more of a fist of things with a team that IS NOT his.)  9 defeats and finishing 17th.  (Top of the bottom 8 and if he hadn't got those ten signings and hit the emergency breaks we'd have gone down.)

A manager needs his own squad.

So, not a fair comparison until MoN spends £25 million on his own players.

MoN has done well with what he's inherited.  People forget that Aitor dropped our ACM and reverted to goofball (hoofball some say...)  And yeah.  We were miles off the top ten, a position we were in when he came in.  

We can't have short memories about this stuff.

So, we lost to Rotherham.  We hit the post twice.  Could have been different.  MoN has got us back to basics until the Summer transfer window can dictate otherwise.  That means?  Results are a priority.  Not sexy, toothless football.

MoN's win ratio is far better than Aitor's from the SAME position last year and the league position is healthier relative to the play offs.

Perhaps MoN needs a full pre-season with his own Summer transfer window.  Otherwise it's not a fair comparison.  Which Aitor and which MoN are we comparing?

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Dowell played nine games under AK without scoring.

True.  He was probably going off the boil before Aitor came on, as were Warburton's Forest.

Interesting comparison with Car' in that regard...as, with both being young players, they tailed off.  That's not anything new.  Paul Hart's 'young guns' tailed off after a good start.  It wasn't until they good seasoned pros around them that things became more consistent over a season.

Soudani was supposed to be our 'older head' ACM.  But he got injured.

Typical Forest.  So it mean we had to rely on Car' who, according to NG, was burned out due to not being properly prepared for a full Championship season, conditioning wise.

Makes me think back to that early game vs WBA were Gonzo couldn't track back their man and it lead to a goal.  IT don't think any of them were prepared for life in the Championship. 

Even the wiry Soudani.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Dowell played nine games under AK without scoring.

Exactly. Carva has played 8 under MON and scored 1.

So he's had his chances under MoN.  A myth that MoN hasn't played him?

Aye.  And Car' cost wayyyy more.  

See my post above.

Had Soudani stayed fit, I think he'd have provided the balance we needed in that position.  Just typical Forest with injuries.  But you have to recruit to make sure you're not short in key areas.

Poor recruitment in the Summer balance wise.

SA.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

This isnt a pop at ONeill but does anyone think we would have been hammered by Wednesday under Karanka?
No I don’t either. I reckon Karanka would have got us comfortably top 6 this season if he had stayed.

[Strawberry Avenger]

This isnt a pop at ONeill but does anyone think we would have been hammered by Wednesday under Karanka?
No I don’t either. I reckon Karanka would have got us comfortably top 6 this season if he had stayed.

Aye.  Well.  I didn't want Aitor sacked.

Or quit.  or walked.  Whatever happened.

The fans chanted for him to stay.  Because they get it.  "Chop.  Change.  Fail.  Chop.  Change.  Fail."

SA.