Is It Ever Acceptable To Boo Your Own Team?

[wassy04]

But we're not talking about Fawaz.  That's history.

We're talking about a season where we're a win from the play offs.

The team are undergoing a 'live' pre-season of games half way through the season.  Given that, Forest are doing well to be 3 points off.

The team selection is a 'needs must.'  Forest are going down the 'tough to beat' route.

Starting with?  Picking Car' and Ani' gave the initiative to the 'improved' (for them) Ipswich.  It was like playing with 9 men.  So Forest went down 1 nil because those two can't hold the ball up.  Lightweight.  So Forest then have to do something they couldn't do with Car' and Ani' on the pitch.  'Be creative.'

Car' isn't up to the Championship.  He started ok.  But the winter season found him out.  And at £13.5 million he should be.  (He might not be the only player 'not up to it...'  But we didn't pay £13.5 million on them.  And that money should have been doled out for an extra striker, an ACM who was ready and probably a handful of players in total who would have seen Forest better served.  This isn't Greece.  Hopefully lessons learned.)  

So, he's not our secret weapon.  But I wouldn't 'boo' him.  I feel in terms of bang for buck?  Cash and Murphy have done more.  Os' tried harder.  Yates, I feel, seems to have a better attitude.  Big Ben has a robust attitude.  You need that in the championship.  And Murphy got the goal and inspired the win despite the boos.

Be the 12th man (like Leeds did against Forest at their place.)  Especially when you're team are so close.  It's not like Forest are on a 5 losing streak.  Swansea play better football.  But they earned that over years of consistency.

But they are as brittle as Forest were under Warburton.

MoN knows Car' and Murphy better.  And the results have born that out.  He's the boss.  

SA.

For a start if you’d read my comments you’d realise I was talking about in general not necessarily this season as some people were saying they’d literally never boo which I didn’t agree with.

A lot of this point is irrelevant given carvalho didn’t play v Ipswich but you seem to have just decided he had a bad winter, as opposed to all our other players that tore it up over that period? Or are you putting the sole blame on our downturn in form on him?

His price is not his fault, that criticism should be directed at the management but it doesn’t mean he should be devalued because of it. Just because he’s not worth £13m (yet) doesn’t mean he’s not still better than the alternatives we have in that position.

Murphy has literally scored less goals than carvalho (almond less assists) whilst playing up front so it’s a stretch to say he’s done more?! 

Ha and Leeds lost that game so that doesn’t really prove your point does it? Swansea are currently 14th and 7 points below us so not sure when they earned that?!

I would argue I’ve watched more games this season that MON (admittedly not training) so I think I can make a reasonable judgement too....

It’s a shame I can’t do that thing where you pick out each comment like NG3 used to do, it looks much better!

[Strawberry Avenger]

Yeah. The Villa game. (But did they win the Ipswich game for Forest? Could they? Can they?)

And they held the ball up 'brilliantly.'

So, it was like playing with 9 mine. Would have been better later on as 'super' subs.

£13.5 million and Car' can't hold up the ball or score. He didn't play well. The team didn't. But if you start with Car' and Ani vs a 'much tougher game' in Villa. Ani' falling over with his theatrics didn't help either. That's not how you hold the ball up.

I didn't feel Martin got that call right with those two vs Villa. But, someone might argue...what else was he going to do? Play Grabban who was injured? Murphy who was probably knackered.

Our only outlet seemed to be Lolley. Villa just showed the difference in their history over the last 5 years. Blowing £13.5 on a player who isn't ready for this league and a so-so striker from our sister club isn't going to bridge that gap.

It's not just them, of course. The £13.5 million is less about Car' (who isn't tearing up this league) and more about last Summer.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

How many goals has Car' scored?

SA.

[wassy04]

How many goals has Car' scored?

SA.

4 goals 6 assists

[wassy04]

Yeah.  The Villa game.  (But did they win the Ipswich game for Forest?  Could they?  Can they?)

And they held the ball up 'brilliantly.'

So, it was like playing with 9 mine.  Would have been better later on as 'super' subs.

£13.5 million and Car' can't hold up the ball or score.  He didn't play well.  The team didn't.  But if you start with Car' and Ani vs a 'much tougher game' in Villa.  Ani' falling over with his theatrics didn't help either.  That's not how you hold the ball up.  

I didn't feel Martin got that call right with those two vs Villa.  But, someone might argue...what else was he going to do?  Play Grabban who was injured?  Murphy who was probably knackered.

Our only outlet seemed to be Lolley.  Villa just showed the difference in their history over the last 5 years.  Blowing £13.5 on a player who isn't ready for this league and a so-so striker from our sister club isn't going to bridge that gap.

It's not just them, of course.  The £13.5 million is less about Car' (who isn't tearing up this league) and more about last Summer.

SA.

Also this is nothing to do with Karim, I don’t think anyone thinks he’s up to much.

Playing with 9 is a pretty harsh comment, even karim didn’t deserve that. In that particular game, colback and Yates were much worse whilst Osborn was caught out of position plenty of times. Also don’t get me started on the keeper

[Strawberry Avenger]

How many goals has Car' scored?

SA.

4 goals 6 assists

That's 'not bad.'  But for £13.5 million?  Where's he been for the last 4-6 months?  

So, he, like Murphy, has done his bit this season.  But Car' cost £13.5 million and it's a long time since he's been assisting or scoring goals or (and this is why, I suspect Martin isn't choosing him...) he isn't retaining possession e.g. pulling out of tackles, not getting near his man or the ball isn't sticking with him.

After a decent start, the Championship dark winters proved too tough for him mentally or physically?

So then, it's down to Lolley to carry the attacking threat?

SA.

[wassy04]

He scored against Hull a few games ago, barely played since MON took over so hard to criticise his performances since then. (by the way we should probably keep this debate to just one thread since it’s largely the same thing and not really about booing or MON’s interview!)

[Strawberry Avenger]

Yeah.  The Villa game.  (But did they win the Ipswich game for Forest?  Could they?  Can they?)

And they held the ball up 'brilliantly.'

So, it was like playing with 9 mine.  Would have been better later on as 'super' subs.

£13.5 million and Car' can't hold up the ball or score.  He didn't play well.  The team didn't.  But if you start with Car' and Ani vs a 'much tougher game' in Villa.  Ani' falling over with his theatrics didn't help either.  That's not how you hold the ball up.  

I didn't feel Martin got that call right with those two vs Villa.  But, someone might argue...what else was he going to do?  Play Grabban who was injured?  Murphy who was probably knackered.

Our only outlet seemed to be Lolley.  Villa just showed the difference in their history over the last 5 years.  Blowing £13.5 on a player who isn't ready for this league and a so-so striker from our sister club isn't going to bridge that gap.

It's not just them, of course.  The £13.5 million is less about Car' (who isn't tearing up this league) and more about last Summer.

SA.

Also this is nothing to do with Karim, I don’t think anyone thinks he’s up to much.

Playing with 9 is a pretty harsh comment, even karim didn’t deserve that. In that particular game, colback and Yates were much worse whilst Osborn was caught out of position plenty of times. Also don’t get me started on the keeper

It is to do with every player who pulls on a Forest shirt.  Vs Villa?  It was like starting with '9' men.  Sure, I wouldn't have boo-ed them, though.  Our player of the season, Colback got done filling in at Os' LB position.  (Os' aint no LB.)

I suspect why he gets picked there at the moment vs Jack may have something do with discipline.  But Martin will know the reason why.

I suspect Colback and Yates were worse because Car' and Ani' couldn't hold the ball up.  It starts further up the pitch.  Did they take the game to Villa?  The players, overall, were poor that night.  But I had a bad feeling about Car' and Ani' getting picked.

Car' doesn't get picked because he cost £13.5 million.  If he isn't doing it in training or isn't doing it where he should (and he hasn't been) i.e. on the pitch.  He isn't getting picked.  And the 'boo' / 'chanting' for Car' didn't really amount to much.  He doesn't seem to tackle or pulls out of them, his assists seem to have vanished and he isn't scoring goals either, so what is he doing?

As Murphy inspired the win last game.  Car' did not.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

He scored against Hull a few games ago, barely played since MON took over so hard to criticise his performances since then. (by the way we should probably keep this debate to just one thread since it’s largely the same thing and not really about booing or MON’s interview!)

I wouldn't boo Car' or any other player.  Or the manager.

He's barely played because he isn't doing it in training or on the pitch.

Why?  I'll give credit to NG.  He 'speculated' (or had insider info'...) as to why not.

But it's like boo-ing Grabban going off.  Try getting on the pitch and running around with injured tendons.  65 mins and he was about done...and he was most likely ineffectual because of that.

Car' has been somewhat protected by Martin by the looks of things.  He's tried to do that.  But fans won't see that either.  Forest bought a player who was not ready for the Championship.  And like Grabban?  That needs managing.

If you're 'that good' (I'm guessing Car' wasn't injured vs Villa?  Or '35?' And past it?) you'll show it vs Villa.  Or any team in the Championship.  And it's been a while since he has.  And that's why he's not getting picked.  He's not the first young player to have crumbled or become jaded half way through the season.

But if he can't do what he was signed for (£13.5 million ACM?) then he won't play and his future will be considered over the Summer.  

Forest's hierarchy wanted the 'now.'  So I'm surprised they signed not proven players like Dias, Gonzo and Car'.

It could have and should have been better spent on players more suited to the Championship. That's not Car's fault. So we don't boo him. But I get why Martin won't pick him. If he can manage Car' as a late game super-sub...but that's up to MoN. It will be the 'holding' play up that is probably doing for him. And it becomes a confidence issue as well, as the manager doesn't trust you to do your job. Car' doesn't have to be like Big Ben or Murphy. Smaller players can be tough. But is Car'? Does he hold the ball up?

It's been a predictably poor return (from all 3 Portuguese players.) Unless we think £13.5 million is a good return for 4 goals (which our 35 year Murphy has also given us.)  Though, it would be a fair argument to say without Car's early doors goals and assists that Forest wouldn't be anywhere near the play offs.

But you could say that of Cash (8?) and Murphy's (4?) goals as well.  And they cost far less and have played just as much and probably done 'more' in more matches.

SA.

[TheGreenMan]

Carvalho didn’t start against Swansea so what was Yates’ excuse in that one then for basically being crap??

[Strawberry Avenger]

Carvalho didn’t start against Swansea so what was Yates’ excuse in that one then for basically being crap??

He's cheaper.  And scored 3 goals less than Car'.

SA.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

To answer the question in the header: No it is NOT acceptable to boo your own team.

You can of course chose to do so but that is in my mind, just stupid behaviour to put it mildly. Mind, just because you have paid money for something doesn’t give you the right to act as an a.....ole.

^ This what GaribaldiRed said is what I agree with.