Joao Carvalho

[McDurban]

Cisco, Robby was constantly involved even out on the wing. I also remember Robbo coming back and producing the odd sliding tackle. He never hid. Besides that ill advised comparison, Robbo was world class and Cavalho is struggling in the championship. No comparison.

You are referring to the 25 year old Robertson as being World Class with 7 years under his belt.
For 5 of those 7 years Robertson was struggling second division winger.
Carvalho is 21 in his first season of English football.

[TheGreenMan]

There’s always a place for him and players alike. You always need a good mix of flair and the more robust type.
You wouldn’t achieve anything with a midfield containing just the likes of Watson, Colback and Yates etc and neither would you with just the likes of Carvalho and Lolley etc.

And Carvalho is certainly not struggling in the Championship, to even suggest that is just completely baffling.

[Maltared]

Cisco, Robby was constantly involved even out on the wing. I also remember Robbo coming back and producing the odd sliding tackle. He never hid. Besides that ill advised comparison, Robbo was world class and Cavalho is struggling in the championship. No comparison.

You are referring to the 25 year old Robertson as being World Class with 7 years under his belt.
For 5 of those 7 years Robertson was struggling second division winger.
Carvalho is 21 in his first season of English football.

Mc ...Carvalho is 22 now, and how old was Robbo when Forest got promotion from the then L2 ? not when he was at his peak when winning the league and the champions cup...

[Maltared]

There’s always a place for him and players alike. You always need a good mix of flair and the more robust type.
You wouldn’t achieve anything with a midfield containing just the likes of Watson, Colback and Yates etc and neither would you with just the likes of Carvalho and Lolley etc.

And Carvalho is certainly not struggling in the Championship, to even suggest that is just completely baffling.

Carvalho is not struggling, he is just not contributing as much as you expect from a 15 million pound signing... especially when you consider what others, like Lolley, contribute and costed a fraction of what we paid for him... maybe the signing figure is not his fault, but at the end of the day that is the thing that distinguish the capacity and what you expect from a player ...if you sign someone for 200 k, you expect so much and you allow him time to `blend` in the team (aslong as he is not 38 years old), but from someone that you sign for 15 million, you expect a finish product that you build your team around and not spending time to try to train and see how you can accommodate ...(as long as we are in the Championship, in the Premiership is a totally different story as 15 million are spare change) ... I said it on a number of times, if instead of buying Carvalho, we got him on loan (like we did with the other two), no one would give him all the chances that we are giving him, but say the same things as we said on Diaz and Gonclavez...

[woody]

As our most expensive signing ever I would expect him to be leading the way. When you look at previous record signing such as Francis, Teddy, Stanley and PVH then I think there’s more of a perspective and it seems MON would agree. I totally agree we can’t have three defensive midfielders selected every week otherwise we’ll become very predictable but so long as Cavalhro goes missing for 85 minutes each week he won’t be in the team.

Cisco, great point but Bowyer, Anderson, O’Neill and Barrett (?) were all struggling prior to Sir Brian’s arrival, then suddenly they were part of the best team in Europe. Let’s hope MON can spark our man in the same way Brian sparked them. It’s in Cavalho’s hands but he must embrace the wider game and not just when he’s got the ball.

[Ciscokid]

Woody I agree with much of what you say. I wasn't trying to compare players against each other although that's always fascinating but was simply to suggest that flair players need to be part of a balanced set up so that the stronger, battling types can hold things together when the creators aren't clicking. Robbo had such games but the likes of Ian Bowyer and the rest could still deliver wins. I too agree that MoN and Roy seem to be working to mould such a balance with, crucially, a very strong spine. Pants has improved, the centre backs have dramatically strengthened our defence and our midfield options especially Colback have added drive and power. For me it's just upfront that hasn't quite made it yet. So, maybe this year is too early but I am more confident now that we are getting there.

[woody]

Agreed Cisco. My heart is praying to get up but my head says we won’t and in all honesty, another year with O’Neill in charge will have us better prepared for a real go at it. We’ve come a long way in one season from relegation fodder to genuine challengers. Cavalho has to roll his sleeves up and either develop with the team and work on his weaker side or become a very expensive failure. Sometimes foreign players take a little longer to settle in. Maybe a pre season with MON and RK will have him better prepared for the rigours of the championship and who knows, maybe the premiership will be more to Cavalho’s liking...... if O’Neill doesn’t decide to ship him out before then.

[TheGreenMan]

Can slightly understand how Carvalho gets some of the criticism he receives, but certainly not the majority of it! But for god sake he’s hardly played lately. So how can he be struggling in games if he hasn’t started since Chelsea in the cup??
And I’m pretty sure we signed him for £13m and not £15m and none of us paid for it so why does it bother people so much?
Do people actually notice what players do off the ball?? Like taking players away from the action to create space for others??
Lolley went completely off the boil during December and January, but people weren’t calling for him to be dropped or sold.......Oh I wonder why, probably because he’s English!!
Why is it that Osborn who offers pretty much sod all in midfield, but because he runs around a lot and ‘puts the effort in’ receives god like status? But poor Carvalho because he hasn’t got that so called out dated British Bulldog spirit.
We need a variety of players in the starting 11, you get absolutely no where with just tacklers and runners.

[wassy04]

If we’d paid £3m for carvalho not £13m do you think you’d want him in the team every week based on what you’ve seen?

Surely we should base his ability on the same level as everyone else? For me I think he should be starting particularly when we haven’t got grabban as we’re pretty much solely reliant on lolley and set pieces.

[wassy04]

I guess it depends what you’re assessing. Are you assessing his value to the team as in should he be playing more? Or are you assessing his value as an asset in which case the transfer fee is important as it is a determining factor for this.

[McDurban]

Cisco, Robby was constantly involved even out on the wing. I also remember Robbo coming back and producing the odd sliding tackle. He never hid. Besides that ill advised comparison, Robbo was world class and Cavalho is struggling in the championship. No comparison.

You are referring to the 25 year old Robertson as being World Class with 7 years under his belt.
For 5 of those 7 years Robertson was struggling second division winger.
Carvalho is 21 in his first season of English football.

Mc ...Carvalho is 22 now, and how old was Robbo when Forest got promotion from the then L2 ? not when he was at his peak when winning the league and the champions cup...

25 I think

[McDurban]

As our most expensive signing ever I would expect him to be leading the way. When you look at previous record signing such as Francis, Teddy, Stanley and PVH then I think there’s more of a perspective and it seems MON would agree. I totally agree we can’t have three defensive midfielders selected every week otherwise we’ll become very predictable but so long as Cavalhro goes missing for 85 minutes each week he won’t be in the team.

Cisco, great point but Bowyer, Anderson, O’Neill and Barrett (?) were all struggling prior to Sir Brian’s arrival, then suddenly they were part of the best team in Europe. Let’s hope MON can spark our man in the same way Brian sparked them. It’s in Cavalho’s hands but he must embrace the wider game and not just when he’s got the ball.

He may be our most expensive signing but relative to what.
Francis was also the most expensive signing ever, equivalent to Neymar to PSG. 
The two cannot be compared.
That's how much the finished product costs nowadays.
13 million is peanuts in the grand scale.