Tactics Formations & Team Selections Etc

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Lets revive this for those of you that actually read this section of the forum rather than repetitively asking if we are signing a CF on the transfers thread.

Ive heard it said a few times that we have a squad well suited for Glasners 3421 formation.

Sorry, but other than signing Diomande I just dont see it. Its a work in progress clearly, hopefully it will pay off but I don’t see how its working right now. Yes I accept I have seen a grand total of 1 game.

However my point:
We have 4 players who are wingers, we signed 3 last summer for a total of £100m. This formation doesn’t utilise wingers at all. We ended today’s match with none on the pitch. You can shoehorn Ndoye in there but CHO, Hutchinson and Bakwa aren’t getting close and are all well down the pecking order.

It’s obvious how reliant it is on wingbacks to provide width and do the running but all our 4 players for that position look far more like natural full backs. Neco doesn’t look too happy there ( note he hasn’t signed his contract yet???) Ola is clearly going to run out of gas. Netz again from what I can see looks like a full back. Savona will leave.

MGW looks too isolated at the moment although I remain hopeful he can link with McAtee in a deeper role. We saw a few nice flicks but need to see far more than that. Leeds matched our formation today but I can see that middle 2 being swamped against a team that fill midfield.

I think there is some hope, can see Jesus playing behind a CF and Kalimuendo if he does want to stay can do the same. Hopefully there is enough quality in the CBs to work their system.

So who out there likes it? Can it work?

[Colnago]

Not sure I saw that, I thought the back 3 were solid wing backs ok but can do a lot better.
Our midfield and attack for me were passive, really poor. A lot of work to do, not sure a Delap type Cf helps if I am honest. Early days

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Not sure I saw that, I thought the back 3 were solid wing backs ok but can do a lot better.
Our midfield and attack for me were passive, really poor. A lot of work to do, not sure a Delap type Cf helps if I am honest. Early days

Yes I don’t have a problem with the back 3 (work to do still) Reworded my original post, it made it look like I thought that was the problem.

Agree with you about a Delap style forward too, think we need someone more mobile to get on the end of through balls. Wood had a couple of good chances near the end but the pace just isnt there with him.

[wassy04]

Lets revive this for those of you that actually read this section of the forum rather than repetitively asking if we are signing a CF on the transfers thread.

Ive heard it said a few times that we have a squad well suited for Glasners 3 at the back.

Sorry, but other than signing Diomande I just dont see it. Its a work in progress clearly, hopefully it will pay off but I don’t see how its working right now. Yes I accept I have seen a grand total of 1 game.

However my point:
We have 4 players who are wingers, we signed 3 last summer for a total of £100m. This formation doesn’t utilise wingers at all. We ended today’s match with none on the pitch. You can shoehorn Ndoye in there but CHO, Hutchinson and Bakwa aren’t getting close and are all well down the pecking order.

It’s obvious how reliant it is on wingbacks to provide width and do the running but all our 4 players for that position look far more like natural full backs. Neco doesn’t look too happy there ( note he hasn’t signed his contract yet???) Ola is clearly going to run out of gas. Netz again from what I can see looks like a full back. Savona will leave.

MGW looks too isolated at the moment although I remain hopeful he can link with McAtee in a deeper role. We saw a few nice flicks but need to see far more than that. Leeds matched our formation today but I can see that middle 2 being swamped against a team that fill midfield.

I think there is some hope, can see Jesus playing behind a CF and Kalimuendo if he does want to stay can do the same. Hopefully there is enough quality in the CBs to work their system.

So who out there likes it? Can it work?

I'll defend it, worked well for Palace and Leeds last year. Worth noting the wingers you mentioned were pretty rubbish in our other formations too last year so not too fussed about that, although its a lot if money to write off. 

It worked reasonably well under Pereira too briefly. As much as we want McAtee to work, he's not Anderson and I agree against teams with three in midfield we will struggle in that area. I honestly think this formation is perfect for MGW, he's always looked best as a slightly wide forward and this is where he should be in this tactic, similar to Sarr last year. 

Ultimately, doesn't matter what system we play, if we haven't got a decent striker. We saw that all last year and saw it again today.

[Chicago]

I think we were deadly dull under Glasner. Everything was rigid and uninspired. I think under Vitor we would have won that. Certainly under him we were playing with freedom and were fluid in movement. Watching this, I could tell where everyone was going. It was very easy to predict. We were unfortunately Leeds light. There weren't even remotely better than us they just got a shot on target. I think this is going to be a very boring season. Which some people may find inspiring. I didn't rate this performance as out of the blocks all guns blazing. Thought the players kind of played with a bit of fear. McAtee was fine. Sangare was Fine. We just didn't have any zip in the final third. We are going to have a tough time scoring unless we force mistakes on the press.

Dan N'Doye was rubbish again. The game was screaming out for a bit of CHO and the speed of Hutchinson or some 4-4-2 as We needed more midfielders or wingers available. We don't play with wingers which is absolutely crap to watch as they are the most exciting on the pitch. I am not feeling the vibes. There were exactly zero.

We will be fine but this will not be a charge to Europe which means Glasner probably isn't going to be comfortable. Cunha was our best defender. Igor was our best attacker. Pity he didn't find Neco near the end. Didn't deserve to lose. Didn't deserve to win. You things are dull when Rob Jones doesn't enrage you. Blah.

Chicago: Feeling a tad uninspired.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Agree with a lot of that, heard a few people say we were Leeds Light.

Was listening to Jack Colback on the way home, he was saying how over coached most teams are now and the creativity is pushed out of them. For example he can see an opportunity to move into space or play a ball but the coach has been telling him all week he can’t run except to be in a certain area or he can’t only pass forward in a certain situation. Result is you see a lot of boring games particularly when like yesterday the teams have the same formation and ability.

Saw some posts on a big Forest Fan event in Chicago, did you go?

[ToryTom]

I suppose the advantage of playing Neco as a left wing back is that it provides tactical flexibility to drop back to a back four. We know he has been excellent in that position for us, especially defensively. It does mean though that the right wing back has to be very good going forward and able to play almost like a winger. Ola is not that player but he could play a similar role to Neco on the left. That is probably why we are targeting a genuine right wing back and not left wing back. The starting 11 does not quite have the right balance at the moment but i do think the the reported strengths of the three players we are looking to buy, Rueda, Delap and Andre would go along way to putting that right.

[toddy]

plus Woltamade apparently. maybe hes really a WB ?

[BomberBowyer]

I suppose the advantage of playing Neco as a left wing back is that it provides tactical flexibility to drop back to a back four. We know he has been excellent in that position for us, especially defensively. It does mean though that the right wing back has to be very good going forward and able to play almost like a winger. Ola is not that player but he could play a similar role to Neco on the left. That is probably why we are targeting a genuine right wing back and not left wing back. The starting 11 does not quite have the right balance at the moment but i do think the the reported strengths of the three players we are looking to buy, Rueda, Delap and Andre would go along way to putting that right.

Good points. I’ve said elsewhere that I also think part of the problem at the moment is lack of fitness for some of our key players. Murillo for instance coming back from injuries. Diomande not had a preseason. Get them both fit and that gives us strength and pace either side of Milenkovic and cover for the wing backs.  I think having Williams at LWB also helps at the moment for when Aina flags and needs to come off.  Although performances haven’t been great in the 2 games so far, I do believe there have been some positive signs and had Wood or Jesus for instance took their chances, it could very well have been different results. Once we have the likes of Diomande and Murillo fully fit and with Delap and rumoured other additions, I think we will be much much better.

Lastly, have seen comment re number of long balls we have been playing. Less so about the passes from Murillo to put through I think it was Wood Saturday and Dominguez last night. Look forward to seeing more of those.

[Paplane]

I think the biggest disappointment for me so far is that over the last 2 seasons Aina and Williams have been two of our strongest players. Now, both of these seem to be struggling to adapt to their new role. It's like we're throwing away the advantage their talent gives us, for the sake of a system.

It's the same for our back 4 generally. Aina, Williams, Milenkovic and Murillo. When all are fit that's decent. Now none of them, and the third CB, look like they've got a clue.

[wassy04]

I think the biggest disappointment for me so far is that over the last 2 seasons Aina and Williams have been two of our strongest players. Now, both of these seem to be struggling to adapt to their new role. It's like we're throwing away the advantage their talent gives us, for the sake of a system.

It's the same for our back 4 generally. Aina, Williams, Milenkovic and Murillo. When all are fit that's decent. Now none of them, and the third CB, look like they've got a clue.

Aina was a pretty clear weak link last year, never properly recovered from the injury so not sure that's a fair representation.

I would've said before those first two games that Neco is perfectly suited to playing wing back and has played there previously under Pereira and looked fine. I think this is all a massive overreaction after two games personally.

[ToryTom]

I think the biggest disappointment for me so far is that over the last 2 seasons Aina and Williams have been two of our strongest players. Now, both of these seem to be struggling to adapt to their new role. It's like we're throwing away the advantage their talent gives us, for the sake of a system.

It's the same for our back 4 generally. Aina, Williams, Milenkovic and Murillo. When all are fit that's decent. Now none of them, and the third CB, look like they've got a clue.

Playing three centre backs, especially if the two wider ones have decent pace allows more on the pitch tactical flexibility. One of the wing backs need to be comfortable dropping into full back into a back four but also able to make a contribution higher up the pitch when required and the other wing back needs to be a threat going forward. Neco might be able to do either role but on different sides of the position. I do think though his best qualities are defensive and it makes sense to play him on the left where he probably best defensively and bring in a specialist right wing back who is a genuine attacking threat. A lot more teams seem to be adopting it and Glasner has been very succesful with it. We need a specialist right wing back.