Nuno Espirito Santo

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

How did results not improve under Nuno?

Cooper only won one of his last 13 games in charge if I remember well.

So how did results not improve?

It simply isn't true.

If results hadn't improved we would have got relegsted even without a points deduction.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Seeing as you like stats….

Cooper 23/4 14 points from 17 = 0.82ppg. Over season = 31 points. -4 deduction= 27 points =17th place (just)
Nuno 23/4 22 points from 21 =1.04ppg. Over season =39 points. -4 deduction =35 points =17th place

An improvement with Nuno? slightly yes but worth noting if he had the whole season and no deduction the 39 points would still have achieved exactly the same result 17th place.

What we don’t know and will never know is whether Cooper would have steadied the ship or continued a downward spiral.

Cooper had 1 win in 13. Nuno has 2 wins in 15 at one point. Both were relegation stuff.

At the start of the season EM wanted 10th. That was unrealistic but I think if you had told him a new manager, even if there all season, would only get him 17th place he would have been far from happy.

That said I think Nuno did what he needed to do in very difficult circumstances and I remain in the keep him camp. Just expected more and should for example should Silva be available then go get him EM.

[Paplane]

Seeing as you like stats….

Cooper 23/4 14 points from 17 = 0.82ppg. Over season = 31 points. -4 deduction= 27 points =17th place (just)
Nuno 23/4    22 points from 21 =1.04ppg. Over season =39 points. -4 deduction =35 points =17th place

An improvement with Nuno? slightly yes but worth noting if he had the whole season and no deduction the 39 points would still have achieved exactly the same result 17th place.

What we don’t know and will never know is whether Cooper would have steadied the ship or continued a downward spiral.

Cooper had 1 win in 13. Nuno has 2 wins in 15 at one point. Both were relegation stuff.

At the start of the season EM wanted 10th. That was unrealistic but I think if you had told him a new manager, even if there all season, would only get him 17th place he would have been far from happy.

That said I think Nuno did what he needed to do in very difficult circumstances and I remain in the keep him camp. Just expected more and should for example should Silva be available then go get him EM.

I cant be doing with the stats Salv. I can see what I see. The team is playing vastly improved football.

[ToryTom]

Seeing as you like stats….

Cooper 23/4 14 points from 17 = 0.82ppg. Over season = 31 points. -4 deduction= 27 points =17th place (just)
Nuno 23/4    22 points from 21 =1.04ppg. Over season =39 points. -4 deduction =35 points =17th place

An improvement with Nuno? slightly yes but worth noting if he had the whole season and no deduction the 39 points would still have achieved exactly the same result 17th place.

What we don’t know and will never know is whether Cooper would have steadied the ship or continued a downward spiral.

Cooper had 1 win in 13. Nuno has 2 wins in 15 at one point. Both were relegation stuff.

At the start of the season EM wanted 10th. That was unrealistic but I think if you had told him a new manager, even if there all season, would only get him 17th place he would have been far from happy.

That said I think Nuno did what he needed to do in very difficult circumstances and I remain in the keep him camp. Just expected more and should for example should Silva be available then go get him EM.

I cant be doing with the stats Salv. I can see what I see. The team is playing vastly improved football.

And still predominantly losing. It’s not ice dancing. You don’t get points for artistic merit. You get them for winning.

[Paplane]

Seeing as you like stats….

Cooper 23/4 14 points from 17 = 0.82ppg. Over season = 31 points. -4 deduction= 27 points =17th place (just)
Nuno 23/4    22 points from 21 =1.04ppg. Over season =39 points. -4 deduction =35 points =17th place

An improvement with Nuno? slightly yes but worth noting if he had the whole season and no deduction the 39 points would still have achieved exactly the same result 17th place.

What we don’t know and will never know is whether Cooper would have steadied the ship or continued a downward spiral.

Cooper had 1 win in 13. Nuno has 2 wins in 15 at one point. Both were relegation stuff.

At the start of the season EM wanted 10th. That was unrealistic but I think if you had told him a new manager, even if there all season, would only get him 17th place he would have been far from happy.

That said I think Nuno did what he needed to do in very difficult circumstances and I remain in the keep him camp. Just expected more and should for example should Silva be available then go get him EM.

I cant be doing with the stats Salv. I can see what I see. The team is playing vastly improved football.

And still predominantly losing. It’s not ice dancing. You don’t get points for artistic merit. You get them for winning.

Stat away then Tom. Enjoy your spreadsheets while I'm watching the football.

[JWJW]

Seeing as you like stats….

Cooper 23/4 14 points from 17 = 0.82ppg. Over season = 31 points. -4 deduction= 27 points =17th place (just)
Nuno 23/4    22 points from 21 =1.04ppg. Over season =39 points. -4 deduction =35 points =17th place

An improvement with Nuno? slightly yes but worth noting if he had the whole season and no deduction the 39 points would still have achieved exactly the same result 17th place.

What we don’t know and will never know is whether Cooper would have steadied the ship or continued a downward spiral.

Cooper had 1 win in 13. Nuno has 2 wins in 15 at one point. Both were relegation stuff.

At the start of the season EM wanted 10th. That was unrealistic but I think if you had told him a new manager, even if there all season, would only get him 17th place he would have been far from happy.

That said I think Nuno did what he needed to do in very difficult circumstances and I remain in the keep him camp. Just expected more and should for example should Silva be available then go get him EM.

One big stat missing.


Cooper - number of Afcon where 6 players lost = 0

Nuno -  - number of Afcon where 6 players lost = 1


Cooper + 0 points.

Nuno + 6 points, 1 per player.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Seeing as you like stats….

Cooper 23/4 14 points from 17 = 0.82ppg. Over season = 31 points. -4 deduction= 27 points =17th place (just)
Nuno 23/4    22 points from 21 =1.04ppg. Over season =39 points. -4 deduction =35 points =17th place

An improvement with Nuno? slightly yes but worth noting if he had the whole season and no deduction the 39 points would still have achieved exactly the same result 17th place.

What we don’t know and will never know is whether Cooper would have steadied the ship or continued a downward spiral.

Cooper had 1 win in 13. Nuno has 2 wins in 15 at one point. Both were relegation stuff.

At the start of the season EM wanted 10th. That was unrealistic but I think if you had told him a new manager, even if there all season, would only get him 17th place he would have been far from happy.

That said I think Nuno did what he needed to do in very difficult circumstances and I remain in the keep him camp. Just expected more and should for example should Silva be available then go get him EM.

I cant be doing with the stats Salv. I can see what I see. The team is playing vastly improved football.

And still predominantly losing. It’s not ice dancing. You don’t get points for artistic merit. You get them for winning.

Stat away then Tom. Enjoy your spreadsheets while I'm watching the football.

Tom it is the Premier League what are you expecting exactly?

Despite AFCON, despite injuries, despite shit refs and VAR and despite a points deduction we stayed up.

Something wasn't working so we changed it and Nuno came in and did his job.

It's a bit like the Tories because they aren't working either and they will be replaced too but whereas we stayed up the Tories will be relgated to the third category behind Labour and Reform.

[Sausage Roll]

Seeing as you like stats….

Cooper 23/4 14 points from 17 = 0.82ppg. Over season = 31 points. -4 deduction= 27 points =17th place (just)
Nuno 23/4    22 points from 21 =1.04ppg. Over season =39 points. -4 deduction =35 points =17th place

An improvement with Nuno? slightly yes but worth noting if he had the whole season and no deduction the 39 points would still have achieved exactly the same result 17th place.

What we don’t know and will never know is whether Cooper would have steadied the ship or continued a downward spiral.

Cooper had 1 win in 13. Nuno has 2 wins in 15 at one point. Both were relegation stuff.

At the start of the season EM wanted 10th. That was unrealistic but I think if you had told him a new manager, even if there all season, would only get him 17th place he would have been far from happy.

That said I think Nuno did what he needed to do in very difficult circumstances and I remain in the keep him camp. Just expected more and should for example should Silva be available then go get him EM.

I cant be doing with the stats Salv. I can see what I see. The team is playing vastly improved football.

And still predominantly losing. It’s not ice dancing. You don’t get points for artistic merit. You get them for winning.

Stat away then Tom. Enjoy your spreadsheets while I'm watching the football.

Tom it is the Premier League what are you expecting exactly?

Despite AFCON, despite injuries, despite S**t refs and VAR and despite a points deduction we stayed up.

Something wasn't working so we changed it and Nuno came in and did his job.

It's a bit like the Tories because they aren't working either and they will be replaced too but whereas we stayed up the Tories will be relgated to the third category behind Labour and Reform.

<off topic> The difference being the Tories tried different leaders and didn't get a bounce from any of them. :Laugh:  </off topic>

Sorry Sniff - I won't do it again.

And yes. Nuno does deserve credit for making us a braver team and ultimately keeping us up under difficult circumstances. That's not discrediting anything Cooper did either. It is possible to give them both praise - and criticism - where it's due.

[Marinakis Red]

Seeing as you like stats….

Cooper 23/4 14 points from 17 = 0.82ppg. Over season = 31 points. -4 deduction= 27 points =17th place (just)
Nuno 23/4    22 points from 21 =1.04ppg. Over season =39 points. -4 deduction =35 points =17th place

An improvement with Nuno? slightly yes but worth noting if he had the whole season and no deduction the 39 points would still have achieved exactly the same result 17th place.

What we don’t know and will never know is whether Cooper would have steadied the ship or continued a downward spiral.

Cooper had 1 win in 13. Nuno has 2 wins in 15 at one point. Both were relegation stuff.

At the start of the season EM wanted 10th. That was unrealistic but I think if you had told him a new manager, even if there all season, would only get him 17th place he would have been far from happy.

That said I think Nuno did what he needed to do in very difficult circumstances and I remain in the keep him camp. Just expected more and should for example should Silva be available then go get him EM.

I cant be doing with the stats Salv. I can see what I see. The team is playing vastly improved football.

And still predominantly losing. It’s not ice dancing. You don’t get points for artistic merit. You get them for winning.

Stat away then Tom. Enjoy your spreadsheets while I'm watching the football.

Tom it is the Premier League what are you expecting exactly?

Despite AFCON, despite injuries, despite S**t refs and VAR and despite a points deduction we stayed up.

Something wasn't working so we changed it and Nuno came in and did his job.

It's a bit like the Tories because they aren't working either and they will be replaced too but whereas we stayed up the Tories will be relgated to the third category behind Labour and Reform.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

This debate around whether we had a good or bad season seems to have spread to the finance thread too.

Its interesting if you go back to this time last year the vast majority on here thought we could finish 10th to 14th. Consensus again was that should Cooper at the time fail to show an improvement then it would be hugely disappointing. Yet we finished a place lower and with a lower number of points even if you add 4 back in and suddenly everyone thinks we did OK? Come on now, make your minds up!

Was trying to make a relatively balanced point above that both managers this season have ultimately underachieved whether we competed better in games or not. Im looking at hard facts not conjecture of whether crap refs, Afcon etc made a difference.
Conjecture is also whether Cooper could have improved and kept us up. No idea, but his relationship with EM was toxic anyway so best we moved on. Nuno did OK in difficult circumstances but IMO no better than OK. The coming season I reckon EM does want better than OK.

[Paplane]

If we have a boring season next season, say we're trundling along in 14th or 15th place but there's never any risk of us being sucked into another relegation fight, how long does it take for Nuno to be axed? Or do we reckon EM will be content with a solid yet unremarkable season?

[Reds73]

I think 3rd season we would need to make some progress.
The stats showed that we underperformed on our league position given the stats.

I would imagine we have to start catching and over taking some of the teams in our current mini league

Everton, Wolves, Bournemouth, Fulham,Palace, Brentford.

I think if we can overtake 3 of those, plus the 3 that came up that was put is in around 14th.