Nottingham Forest - Manchester United

[Shawoddyred]

Our wing backs took on Anthony and Sancho (who are absolute garbage regardless of price).


5 minutes in we should have switched it up - that could even have been telling MGW to sit on Casemiro for a bit so  Danilo and Freuler could then take on Fernandez and Erikson. But we didn't and we let 3 really good, experienced players play a 3 against 2 in the midfield.

A good considered debate from you again, opinions and all that.

Sorry but I can’t let these points go!

Anthony and Sancho are definitely not garbage!! We don’t have any player in our squad even approaching their level. Think the 3 CBs was worth a go and to try to use wing backs to exploit Utds relative weaknesses. It was always going to leave gaps in midfield, damned either way.

Danilo and Freuler could then take on Fernandez and Erikson? Dont make me laugh. Neither are Premier League level in my opinion and it showed.
Also makes the noise about MGW being in the England squad a few weeks back look a bit ridiculous. Did Casemiro let him have a kick? If he did I missed it.

I honestly don't think Anthony and Sancho are any better than any of the players at the other prem clubs. 

I honestly think I'd have been able to have a good game in the United midfield yesterday. They had so much time and space, just able to play simple triangles. Even if they are better players, at least have 1 of our inferior players in their space making it difficult. 

United's weaknesses in recent times have been an overreliance on goals from Rashford.....a problem we didn't have....as well as making mistakes at the back when their first choice defence aren't available. Other than set pieces we didn't put them under pressure. They had way too much possession for that and in easy areas.

[Shawoddyred]

Absolutely shocking today. It really was. We have no plan except chuck it into the channels but we're not even good at that - most of the time gets cut out.

A weakened united....today started with 4 genuine class players.....de gea, fernandez, Eriksson and caismero. 3 in CM. We play 2 and give their actual class players the freedom of nottingham.

2 unpopular opinions from me today -
Steve is a really great man manager but very poor tactically. We need better tactics to stay up and he doesn't seem able to deliver. Potentially a top number 2 but thats not going to happen.
My other unpopular opinion....MGW does not have the physical attributes to be a top player. Not fast, not strong, doesn't have short distance turning or acceleration. Good player, unfortunately held back in my opinion.

So his tactics last season were poor also?

How about, we were beaten by a team that spent £250M last season alone and that isnt including the many other players who were already on their books?

Yes today we were made to look like schoolboys playing against men. That is the gulf between us smaller, less attractive sides and the big 6.

But I am sick and tired of seeing and hearing the same old negativity week after week after week. 

Today was the 4th time Utd have beaten us this season. Nothing to do with tactics or formations, just a field full of international superstars with far greater skills, experience and flair than any player wearing the Garibaldi.. It's about time some of you stopped making out we are something we aren't. We are a newly promoted team with a squad full of new players with the exception of a few. Bournemouth and Fulham, who went up with us already had squads from the PL. We didn't. In fact we didn't even have a squad!

How many of you said at the start of the season, you would be happy if we finished the season in 17th place? We are one place away from 17th with only goal difference separating us from that spot. Either make your minds up what you want or be careful what you wish for!

For me, the biggest let downs have been those that have come in with a massive fee attached. Awoniyi, MGW, Wood, Lingard (wages alone). They have simply not produced.

Easy now. It's just my opinion. Last season the tactic worked..... quite possibly because of djed spence and yates being fit. And anyway, nothing is ever perfect and yes, there were aspects of last season that were starting to become concerning that are actually ignored because ultimately we did get promoted. We definitely didn't score enough goals last season or dominate opponents enough but whatever, we got promoted. 

We currently don't have the pleasure of a djed spence or a fit yates. So in my opinion the system needs to change somewhat. Also, our defense cannot hold out in the same way this season, yes due to the quality of the opposition. 

Steve seems to be able to get something extra out of the team when there's basically nothing to lose. The run last year from bottom.... until  we were on the cusp of automatic and we then hit a wall....although again, we got over the line somehow - though benefited from some fair luck in the playoffs, which is absolutely fine by me!

This year, we went on a good run, again when we basically had nothing to lose. Now, and for past 10 or so games we've had something  to lose and gone completely shocking again!

Tactics are not simply about formation.... But about how you go about things within that formation structure. What opponent to press and when. How high up the pitch to defend. Blah blah blah. 

I'm grumpy. We've played united 4 times this year and rolled over for them every time way more than the other top teams. Really grates because my united supporting mate is lacking his usual entitled arrogance and seems to pity us!!

There is the Djed factor but its more that it was a 3-4-3 whereas in the Prem its been very much a back 5 as we're trying not to concede and then leaving a 2 in midfield being overrun.

We were better 4-3-3 with 3 yard dogs in midfield. The team seems setup around MGW who for me, just doesnt score / create enough to warrant this.

Can't disagree with that.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

^ Yes agree too DR
It worked in the Championship with a different team and weaker opponents.

Last year Steve magicked together a decent meal using leftovers. This year its like trying to compete for a Michelin star using the bits they reject from Mcdonalds chicken nuggets.

Agree too that Steve has definitely showed naivety at times. He is learning the hard way as he goes along, really think in hindsight he should have had a more experienced No2 to guide him. Dont laugh but someone like Steve Bruce next to him would have been really helpful.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

^ Yes agree too DR
It worked in the Championship with a different team and weaker opponents. We had far more outlets creating chances. This year its MGW feeding Brennan and if that doesn’t work we are screwed.

Last year Steve magicked together a decent meal using leftovers. This year its like trying to compete for a Michelin star using the bits they reject from Mcdonalds chicken nuggets.

Agree too that Steve has definitely showed naivety at times. He is learning the hard way as he goes along, really think in hindsight he should have had a more experienced No2 to guide him. Dont laugh but someone like Steve Bruce next to him would have been really helpful.

[wassy04]

^ Yes agree too DR
It worked in the Championship with a different team and weaker opponents.

Last year Steve magicked together a decent meal using leftovers. This year its like trying to compete for a Michelin star using the bits they reject from Mcdonalds chicken nuggets.

Agree too that Steve has definitely showed naivety at times. He is learning the hard way as he goes along, really think in hindsight he should have had a more experienced No2 to guide him. Dont laugh but someone like Steve Bruce next to him would have been really helpful.

100% and perhaps ironically could be the justification for keeping him, if we can point to improvements to the backroom staff to appease any bloodlust next season. Presuming he was willing to accept that of course.

[zicorice]

Absolutely shocking today. It really was. We have no plan except chuck it into the channels but we're not even good at that - most of the time gets cut out.

A weakened united....today started with 4 genuine class players.....de gea, fernandez, Eriksson and caismero. 3 in CM. We play 2 and give their actual class players the freedom of nottingham.

2 unpopular opinions from me today -
Steve is a really great man manager but very poor tactically. We need better tactics to stay up and he doesn't seem able to deliver. Potentially a top number 2 but thats not going to happen.
My other unpopular opinion....MGW does not have the physical attributes to be a top player. Not fast, not strong, doesn't have short distance turning or acceleration. Good player, unfortunately held back in my opinion.

So his tactics last season were poor also?

How about, we were beaten by a team that spent £250M last season alone and that isnt including the many other players who were already on their books?

Yes today we were made to look like schoolboys playing against men. That is the gulf between us smaller, less attractive sides and the big 6.

But I am sick and tired of seeing and hearing the same old negativity week after week after week. 

Today was the 4th time Utd have beaten us this season. Nothing to do with tactics or formations, just a field full of international superstars with far greater skills, experience and flair than any player wearing the Garibaldi.. It's about time some of you stopped making out we are something we aren't. We are a newly promoted team with a squad full of new players with the exception of a few. Bournemouth and Fulham, who went up with us already had squads from the PL. We didn't. In fact we didn't even have a squad!

How many of you said at the start of the season, you would be happy if we finished the season in 17th place? We are one place away from 17th with only goal difference separating us from that spot. Either make your minds up what you want or be careful what you wish for!

For me, the biggest let downs have been those that have come in with a massive fee attached. Awoniyi, MGW, Wood, Lingard (wages alone). They have simply not produced.

This /\.

[zicorice]

Held off for a day of three and rewatched on TV before commenting.

Positives:
- Felipe (1st goal aside)and Navas.
- Had a couple of clear cut chances.
- Defended the box desperately but mostly effectively.
- McKenna back.
- It was only 2-0...
Negatives
- Gifted 1st goal- yet again.
- Lack of fight all over pitch until in our own box.
- Rarely competing for 2nd balls.
- Taiwos finishing.
- Full backs leaving midfield exposed.
- Midfield leaving everyone exposed
- MGW has lost his mojo since Wolves game.
- Niakhate is looking bang average currently.
- Worrall not well (He was very good last week).
- Officials-again.

Overall we were well beaten by a team who have a genuine squad of almost like for like replacements. They get stick but Lindelof and Maguire were mostly untroubled after 20 minute mark. Erikssen was meant to be on bench but was imo their best player. Presumably squad rotation. Shaw s 'deputy' at LB scored a good goal. Martial was a handful-though his finishing ropey, thankfully.

However - and this is not to excuse some poor performances- at 0-0 if the penalty  is given (which we all now know it should have been) then it does change the complexion of the game significantly- assuming we score it (De Gea has a terrible penalty saving record apparently) then a point is definitely not out of the question. If he gets 2nd yellow, then maybe even more.

We are really missing Yates, Boly  and Kouyate down the spine. All very big, athletic and strong characters- as well as solid footballers. Although Williams has definitely improved last 2 games  he is certainly no Aurier who we have also missed, for similar reasons as the other 3 albeit he doesn't play in the spine.
Liverpool away will be horrible. They will feel they owe us after being turned over at our place, plus all the prematch emotion that will be added in. 

Sure plenty will still claim Coopers tactics or Cooper's gilet cost us as the truth is just so much more difficult to affect and far too obvious. Ie Our available team contains too many players who are lacking in key elements required to compete in this league. Some lack athleticism, some lack consistency  some lack concentration, some lack pace, some lack required quality and sadly it seems some lack character and will to fight for every ball.  Nearly all- including the boss- lack experience at this level. Ultimately,  put thst together and we are not good enough-at the present time.

We CAN still stay up, just need that one result to turn the tide, no idea if any of our key missing players are due to return, because that's what we really need, some more character and athleticism to help fight tooth and nail to get those points.

[zicorice]

Just seem a comment stating Sancho and Anthony are not all that  or words to that effect. Didn't they cost around £165 million?  Can't stand Anthony, but he's clearly an extremely talented lad. His battle with Lodi was intriguing with Lodi limiting his effectiveness for most of game .....except for the goal and the assist!!! Which is why he cost so much, 2 moments which decided outcome.

Mind you I wish we were good enough to give Jonno that much of the ball in one game.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Not good enough for NFFC Loic Bade has just achieved what our entire team couldn’t manage in 4 games and scored against Man Utd and will now play in a European semi final.

We paid over £1m for his loan by the way.

Just waiting for Rafa Mir to come on…

[Paplane]

Not good enough for NFFC Loic Bade has just achieved what our entire team couldn’t manage in 4 games and scored against Man Utd and will now play in a European semi final.

We paid over £1m for his loan by the way.

Just waiting for Rafa Mir to come on…

Easy to criticise Salv. We dont know what's gone on. He might have had a poor attitude, or refused to try to learn the language etc.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Yes I know that Pap, was being sarcastic, I suspect something happened behind the scenes.

It is bonkers watching this match how on top Sevilla are considering we couldn’t lay a glove on ManU.

[Paplane]

Yes I know that Pap, was being sarcastic, I suspect something happened behind the scenes.

It is bonkers watching this match how on top Sevilla are considering we couldn’t lay a glove on ManU.

I cant watch the Man Utd tonight. I've just had enough of them this season.