Stevie Cooper

[nffc93]

I think this could possibly be Coops last home game. Could well be a strange old day Sunday with a mixture of emotions

Could well be.
If reports are anything to go by, EM and Giraldi had a big fall out over Giraldi not agreeing to Coops basically remaining coach on a game by game basis.

I would imagine Wilson’s first action will be to bring a new head coach in.

Wonder if it will be Hassenhutl or Gerrard

I think naturally we'd be forgiven for thinking it could well be one of those two. 

If I had my way Coops stays and we go again next season. Sadly that isn't going to happen. I'd like Rodgers or Ange Postecoglou but both probably out of reach.

[Madforit]

I think this could possibly be Coops last home game. Could well be a strange old day Sunday with a mixture of emotions

Could well be.
If reports are anything to go by, EM and Giraldi had a big fall out over Giraldi not agreeing to Coops basically remaining coach on a game by game basis.

I would imagine Wilson’s first action will be to bring a new head coach in.

Wonder if it will be Hassenhutl or Gerrard

I think naturally we'd be forgiven for thinking it could well be one of those two. 

If I had my way Coops stays and we go again next season. Sadly that isn't going to happen. I'd like Rodgers or Ange Postecoglou but both probably out of reach.

Both good shouts ^^

[wassy04]

I think this could possibly be Coops last home game. Could well be a strange old day Sunday with a mixture of emotions

Could well be.
If reports are anything to go by, EM and Giraldi had a big fall out over Giraldi not agreeing to Coops basically remaining coach on a game by game basis.

I would imagine Wilson’s first action will be to bring a new head coach in.

Wonder if it will be Hassenhutl or Gerrard

I think naturally we'd be forgiven for thinking it could well be one of those two. 

If I had my way Coops stays and we go again next season. Sadly that isn't going to happen. I'd like Rodgers or Ange Postecoglou but both probably out of reach.

Both good shouts ^^

Both not happening so irrelevant.

[JWJW]

Well, if Cooper knows he has only 1 loss left before he goes.........and he is said to be such a good coach and loved by all.........then he should be able to fire up the players and we beat Manure.

If the players cannot be arsed on Sunday, and Cooper cannot motivate them, then he deserves to be gone if we lose again.

Its down to Steve now, his tactics and his motivational skills.

Can we beat Manure on Sunday, hopefully we can. Every game is a cup final for Steve Cooper now - as it should be.

[Forest1970]

Well, if Cooper knows he has only 1 loss left before he goes.........and he is said to be such a good coach and loved by all.........then he should be able to fire up the players and we beat Manure.

If the players cannot be arsed on Sunday, and Cooper cannot motivate them, then he deserves to be gone if we lose again.

Its down to Steve now, his tactics and his motivational skills.

Can we beat Manure on Sunday, hopefully we can.  Every game is a cup final for Steve Cooper now -  as it should be.

Once again when that whistle blows its the players that needs to make the effort. It dosen't take the tactic or motivation to be able to string a line of passes together or even shoot on target. They should not always need to be motivated as the motivation comes from wanting to stay in the Premiership and also playing for the mighty Forest. If that isn't motivation enough then f**k them off and get players who do want to play for the team and are willing to pull their finger out and do a shift.

AGAIN the players need to shoulder some of the responsibility not just Cooper otherwise they're getting away with just tossing it off and getting a pretty penny from the club and I'm sure the big man will notice that and hopefully tear them a new one because they derserve it.

[JWJW]

I agree......however it can also be a culture thing.

Perhaps Steve is too much of a nice guy ? Perhaps he needs an assistant who is a fierce Bstard.......who scares the living crap out of the players.

The old good cop/bad cop routine.

If Steve has let a culture build of "his players" who play often and so who feel relaxed they will always be picked and this has also left half the squad pissed off with not being picked - you end up with very lacklustre performances and a run of very poor results.........

We will see Sunday.

As much as I will moan........I hope we beat Manure and Steve stays in the job for another game and another attempt at a win.

If we win, nobody will moan...........but if we keep up this abysmal run of performances and results, something has to change.

[zicorice]

I agree......however it can also be a culture thing.

Perhaps Steve is too much of a nice guy ?  Perhaps he needs an assistant who is a fierce Bstard.......who scares the living crap out of the players.

The old good cop/bad cop routine.

If Steve has let a culture build of "his players" who play often and so who feel relaxed they will always be picked and this has also left half the squad pissed off with not being picked - you end up with very lacklustre performances and a run of very poor results.........

We will see Sunday.

As much as I will moan........I hope we beat Manure and Steve stays in the job for another game and another attempt at a win.

If we win, nobody will moan...........but if we keep up this abysmal run of performances and results, something has to change.

Was deliberately avoiding replying to sell JWJWs negative anti Cooper posts, but this one? Lets run through the options.

GK.: 1 fit one, who used to be really good. Picking his favourite?

We have 4 fit defenders, picking his favourites? No picking those who can f#(King walk.

 Up top? We have not one CF who looks premier league class on what we've seen so far. Would I give Sam a run out? Probably as everyone else has failed  but do I think he'd score 4-6 goals by end of season (or even 3 winners) not really.

Midfield? Our best 2 this season? I'd say Yates and Kouyate- guess what, both crocked. Next best? Probably Freuler  - who is out of form and been dropped. Danilo showing something but inconsistent. Mangala starting to look the part, but missing in action often. And so on. OBrien? Wouldn't have had a kick until recently. Shelvey- is he a favourite? Been dropped twice already (and maybe no 3 coming up Sunday).

Width? Jonno- contributed more than anyone else to keeping us up - but still gets stick from some - Definitely  a Cooper favourite and every other Forest supporter with any football knowledge whatsoever. Dennis - started looking dangerous and then injured

So with the amount of chopping and changing- much of it forced- I'd love to know who his players are that are always getting picked so are relaxed.

MGW had a fantastic game v Wolves  followed by 2 stinkers v Leeds and Everton. Do you think he should be dropped? If so then who for? Genuinely who? Scarpa? Injured. 

If the season ended today and we were relegated, I'd be looking at what's cost us-in the actual matches that is. My order would be:

1. Not enough quality players in the squad at this level-too many unknowns which failed.
2. Lack of consistency in selection, caused often by injuries.- particularly when we started looking OK an injury or 2 would hit..
3. Individual errors.
4. Losing Henderson, Boly, Yates and Kouyate. The spine.
5. Lack of a CF who can hold up ball, turn or bring others into play, let alone be clinical infront of goal.
7. Being too gung-ho early in season.

All of these in my opinion contributed to us being crap away from home and having to fight, scrap and ride our luck to get points at home most of the time.  

Cooper picking his favourites- if its even true- certainly doesn't get a mention for me. 
Tactics? Definitely in 1st part of season, trying to outplay teams going toe to toe (Bournemouth Fulham Leicester and Man City spring to mind, even Spuz) cost us. 

If we stay up, Cooper is Manager of the Year for me.

If we don't, then what we need is a young manager with a great track record in The Championship. 

I don't forget the last 23 years having watched a large proportion of the games in this time. Cooper has turned us from a jobbing Championship basket case of a club (who were in danger of fighting relegation to league 1), to a team fighting relegation in the Premier League. The arrogance to believe spending £160 million would make us safe with what we started out with is incredible.

Could we have stayed up by changing Cooper? Not in my opinion unless the new guy was given better players and miracle cures for injuries whilst players make no individual errors.

Steve Cooper for me should be given first 10 games of next season - whichever division that is in- before assessing the situation.

[ozzyten10]

What a post Zico!

[WrexhamRed]

Absolutely bang on!!! & 90% of fans can see this & that is why they have been so loud with their support of Cooper

[Shawoddyred]

It's all gone a bit weird on here. There is a growing group of folk who are questioning Coopers decision making and tactics but now an extremely die hard set of posters who will not seem to accept that he can be questioned. I think everyone is very grateful for the fact that he was a big part of the club when we finally won promotion to the prem, but I really don't understand why some don't believe he can be questioned. And the response to him being questioned are replies of - yes we're shite, but it's because of everyone and everything else at the club, not Coops. Just find it a bit odd. In my opinion, he can be questioned. Yes, some bad luck, but he is the manager and some believe that there are some aspects he can do better and they might have had an effect in the number of points we currently sit on. Yes, EM deserves to be judged too and clearly he has made a few errors, which he continues to try to put right. Yes, the recruitment team have made some blunders....as all recruitment teams do in every league in the world! And yes, the players need to take some responsibility......we all win together, we all lose together, but actually, it is literally Cooper's job to make sure we win enough, that is his job and he has to be held to account...because it's a job.

[wassy04]

It's all gone a bit weird on here. There is a growing group of folk who are questioning Coopers decision making and tactics but now an extremely die hard set of posters who will not seem to accept that he can be questioned. I think everyone is very grateful for the fact that he was a big part of the club when we finally won promotion to the prem, but I really don't understand why some don't believe he can be questioned. And the response to him being questioned are replies of - yes we're shite, but it's because of everyone and everything else at the club, not Coops. Just find it a bit odd. In my opinion, he can be questioned. Yes, some bad luck, but he is the manager and some believe that there are some aspects he can do better and they might have had an effect in the number of points we currently sit on. Yes, EM deserves to be judged too and clearly he has made a few errors, which he continues to try to put right. Yes, the recruitment team have made some blunders....as all recruitment teams do in every league in the world! And yes, the players need to take some responsibility......we all win together, we all lose together, but actually, it is literally Cooper's job to make sure we win enough, that is his job and he has to be held to account...because it's a job.

There's also a growing number of posters that use this argument to hide behind wanting Cooper out. Me and Zico have probably been the most vocal on defending Cooper yet we've both openly admitted when he's made mistakes too. I've listed these on numerous occasions, doesn't mean I won't defend him too particularly when it's discussing things that are put of his control.

No-one at any point had said he's untouchable or made no mistakes. If you choose to ignore those comments then that's your choice. 

Your argument fell apart at the end though. Sure you're allowed to criticise but at the end you've essentially says he has to be held to account which I presume means sacked if he fails. Which essentially says that regardless of anything out of his control he should be held accountable for failing to achieve an unrealistic target.

3 teams have to go down, does that mean all three teams that go down have failed? Or can't it be simply that the other teams are good and these teams aren't quite as good, sometimes due to factors out of their control like having to build a new team or injuries to half their best players.

So the crux of it is should Cooper be punished for not winning despite the injuries and influx of new players?

[Shawoddyred]

It's all gone a bit weird on here. There is a growing group of folk who are questioning Coopers decision making and tactics but now an extremely die hard set of posters who will not seem to accept that he can be questioned. I think everyone is very grateful for the fact that he was a big part of the club when we finally won promotion to the prem, but I really don't understand why some don't believe he can be questioned. And the response to him being questioned are replies of - yes we're shite, but it's because of everyone and everything else at the club, not Coops. Just find it a bit odd. In my opinion, he can be questioned. Yes, some bad luck, but he is the manager and some believe that there are some aspects he can do better and they might have had an effect in the number of points we currently sit on. Yes, EM deserves to be judged too and clearly he has made a few errors, which he continues to try to put right. Yes, the recruitment team have made some blunders....as all recruitment teams do in every league in the world! And yes, the players need to take some responsibility......we all win together, we all lose together, but actually, it is literally Cooper's job to make sure we win enough, that is his job and he has to be held to account...because it's a job.

There's also a growing number of posters that use this argument to hide behind wanting Cooper out. Me and Zico have probably been the most vocal on defending Cooper yet we've both openly admitted when he's made mistakes too. I've listed these on numerous occasions, doesn't mean I won't defend him too particularly when it's discussing things that are put of his control.

No-one at any point had said he's untouchable or made no mistakes. If you choose to ignore those comments then that's your choice. 

Your argument fell apart at the end though. Sure you're allowed to criticise but at the end you've essentially says he has to be held to account which I presume means sacked if he fails. Which essentially says that regardless of anything out of his control he should be held accountable for failing to achieve an unrealistic target.

3 teams have to go down, does that mean all three teams that go down have failed? Or can't it be simply that the other teams are good and these teams aren't quite as good, sometimes due to factors out of their control like having to build a new team or injuries to half their best players.

So the crux of it is should Cooper be punished for not winning despite the injuries and influx of new players?

You don't seem to be defending Cooper as such. You seem to supply him excuses and blame others. Why not focus on what he is doing well at the moment, try to persuade those questioning him by saying what he is doing well rather than saying about injuries etc. 

I don't think it's an unrealistic target to have kept us up, even taking into account the problems we've faced. That's the difference in our perspectives. There are some absolutely shocking clubs this year, especially Everton, Southampton and Leicester. They have also faced huge problems so our minimum target should be to stay above them....and we still might! 

Yes, the 3 teams that get relegated have failed. I think that's unquestionable and a weird thing to argue as the opposite. 

I don't actually think anyone wants 'Cooper out'. I am very much on the fence to be honest. I certainly wouldn't be upset if he's given the chance to avoid relegation for the rest of the season for sure. I wouldn't be upset if we went down and he was given the start of next season. I think he's done a great job but I also think the football is really average, it has been for a very long time, even during the latter part of the promotion season. When it matters (ie to avoid relegation or win promotion), we seem to revert to very negative tactics that aren't working anymore. So, I do also sometimes think, would someone else be able to come in and get more out of the team at the dying end of this season that might make a positive difference in keeping us up? 

Whatever happens, at the end of the season there will be hindsight applied. 

And don't picture it as 'punishment'. Seriously, he's a grown adult in a ruthless profession and I don't think he would view it that way. He's also been publicly backed twice this season against the norm. He seems like a really nice bloke, he's done a lot for the club but perhaps he needs to do more? Hard to say definitively, but watching the football there do seem to be some shortcomings, regardless of available players, that could be addressed.