Thoughts On The Next Nottingham Forest Manager

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

For me what's done is done. What happened last season is exactly that, last season.

It's all about the here and now and things don't look very good from where I am sitting.

Next two games are massive and hand on heart I hope Steve can pull 4 points out of the bag.

If he doesn't then I fear that the trigger will be pulled.

Dyche waiting in the wings but he's not the only one.

Gonna be an interesting two weeks hopefully we smash Brentford and Palace and move out of the bottom 3 then Steve gets 6 weeks to work with the player's during the break.

Lose the next two though and this Next Manager Thread will be 'hot'.

[Georgecloney]

For me what's done is done. What happened last season is exactly that, last season.

It's all about the here and now and things don't look very good from where I am sitting.

Next two games are massive and hand on heart I hope Steve can pull 4 points out of the bag.

If he doesn't then I fear that the trigger will be pulled.

Dyche waiting in the wings but he's not the only one.

Gonna be an interesting two weeks hopefully we smash Brentford and Palace and move out of the bottom 3 then Steve gets 6 weeks to work with the player's during the break.

Lose the next two though and this Next Manager Thread will be 'hot'.

Anybody think Dyche is a better manager than Steve Cooper.

[Tricky]

We didn't have to assemble a completely new squad though. We could've retained nearly all of the loan players by signing them, given Grabban another year and retained Samba. It was a choice we made so lets not suggest we had a mass walkout of players.

Sorry Pap, but I dont agree with us retaining all of last seasons loan players. Jed made it perfectly clear to SC in January he wanted to play down south due to his family being down there and Spurs held the key to that one. We were messed about by Gerrard and Villa when they placed a ridiculous value on Keinan Davies and Man Utd held out until the last day to decide Jimmy Garners fate. I would say the only one we may have had some control over would've been Zinc and I am not sure the club felt he was consistent enough to up his game in the PL.

Samba I'm afraid wanted out and used some lame excuse to move back to his homeland. Grabban wanted one last pay day making mega bucks in the middle east. None of these decisions can be placed on the club. These were all influences outside of Forest's control.

We also had other players that were released as they certainly wouldn't have made the grade, Lolley, Bong and one or two fringe players.

Nobody knows Tricks what the circumstances were around each of the players but I'm certain if the club wanted them they would have worked a way to get them. For example, Cooper wanted MGW despite the fact he was playing for a direct rival. The club got him. Grabban probably wanted decent cash yes but we must be paying well anyway on alternatives this season. Again, a way could've been found. Samba wouldn't have left had we not gone for Henderson. Choices made by the club. And new players coming in should be replacements for the Lolleys and Bongs, and building a better squad on the foundation of last season's successful side. Its a convenient excuse to say it was out of our control.

I understand the point you are making Pap, but your point is made in hindsight. Remember back to when we signed Lingard and Henderson. These were marque signings. Fans were overwhelmed by the message and intentions the club were making. Both England internationals wanting to prove their worth and get back into Southgates reckoning. Why would we want to hang on to Zinkernagel when Jess Lingard is in the side? Why would you want to bow down to a petulant goalkeeper when you have just signed not just an England international goalkeeper, but the Welsh one also? 

I do agree that the replacement players should have been upgrades on the Bongs and Lolleys, but a lot of the new signings also had international pedigree, so were upgrades on what we had, theoretically anyway. Lodi (Brazil), Awoniyi and Dennis (Nigeria), Freuler (Switzerland), Mangala (Belgium) to name but a few. All on paper are worthy upgrades on what we had. 

The fact is that so many of our signings have international experience which should have bolstered our side considerably but the vast majority of the signings have so far underwhelmed and underperformed, which for me at least, highlights to other factors being in play resulting in our poor performances. What those factors are though, I honestly don't know.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

I dunno George didn't he spend 9 years at Burnley and 8 of them were in the PL, they even qualified for Europe. Not saying that makes Dyche a better manager I am just stating a fact.

In comparison Cooper has had 13 games in The Prem and won just two.

[Username]

^surprised anyone could argue with that record given his budget and the glamour of Burnley

[JWJW]

Said it before.....say it again.........Coopers weakness is picking his boys......and not picking others.

He goes on about "what he sees on the training ground"........but results are about what we all see on the pitch. And it was crap.

Why are so many international players flopping at Forest ? That has to be down to team selections and tactics.

Cooper has no experience in the PL and no experience against full strength top teams and it shows.

I hope we get at least 4 points from the next 2 games..........but if we lose both then for me, sorry, he has to go...........unless we just give up and then plan for next season in the Championship......in which case January clear out........

[Georgecloney]

^surprised anyone could argue with that record given his budget and the glamour of Burnley

Nobody in premier league so far seems that keen to snap him up. Bournemouth prefer a caretaker, Wolves the same and questions about the Southampton managers immediate future have been going on for weeks. They seem to be waiting for somebody other than Dyche. I wonder who that might be.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

^surprised anyone could argue with that record given his budget and the glamour of Burnley

Nobody in premier league so far seems that keen to snap him up. Bournemouth prefer a caretaker, Wolves the same and questions about the Southampton managers immediate future have been going on for weeks. They seem to be waiting for somebody other than Dyche. I wonder who that might be.

That is all speculation to be fair ^^

What is factual though is Dyche record at Burnley in the PL. You can't knock it it's impressive to be honest.

[Georgecloney]

^surprised anyone could argue with that record given his budget and the glamour of Burnley

Nobody in premier league so far seems that keen to snap him up. Bournemouth prefer a caretaker, Wolves the same and questions about the Southampton managers immediate future have been going on for weeks. They seem to be waiting for somebody other than Dyche. I wonder who that might be.

That is all speculation to be fair ^^

What is factual though is Dyche record at Burnley in the PL. You can't knock it it's impressive to be honest.

Likewise you can’t knock Big Sam’s record. Arguably better than Dyche. Should we consider appointing him.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Dyche is modern George he has done it recently. Sam is old school we all know that. It's a poor comparison.

Can't you just admit that Dyche has got a good recent record in the PL?

[Georgecloney]

Dyche is modern George he has done it recently. Sam is old school we all know that. It's a poor comparison.

Can't you just admit that Dyche has got a good recent record in the PL?

Big Sam got relegated one season earlier than Dyche. They were contemporary in the premier league. Dyche is younger than Sam I will admit to that but Roy Hodgson was managing a premier league team last season in his mid 70’s. Nevertheless you make a good point about Sam being old school but maybe that is our the likes of Wolves Southampton and Bournmouth see Dyche in comparison to Cooper, hence their evident reluctance to approach the former whilst he is out of work. You are also right about it only being speculation that those clubs are waiting for Cooper to become available but you must agree that all three are delaying the decision to appoint a new manager.

[Paplane]

We didn't have to assemble a completely new squad though. We could've retained nearly all of the loan players by signing them, given Grabban another year and retained Samba. It was a choice we made so lets not suggest we had a mass walkout of players.

Sorry Pap, but I dont agree with us retaining all of last seasons loan players. Jed made it perfectly clear to SC in January he wanted to play down south due to his family being down there and Spurs held the key to that one. We were messed about by Gerrard and Villa when they placed a ridiculous value on Keinan Davies and Man Utd held out until the last day to decide Jimmy Garners fate. I would say the only one we may have had some control over would've been Zinc and I am not sure the club felt he was consistent enough to up his game in the PL.

Samba I'm afraid wanted out and used some lame excuse to move back to his homeland. Grabban wanted one last pay day making mega bucks in the middle east. None of these decisions can be placed on the club. These were all influences outside of Forest's control.

We also had other players that were released as they certainly wouldn't have made the grade, Lolley, Bong and one or two fringe players.

Nobody knows Tricks what the circumstances were around each of the players but I'm certain if the club wanted them they would have worked a way to get them. For example, Cooper wanted MGW despite the fact he was playing for a direct rival. The club got him. Grabban probably wanted decent cash yes but we must be paying well anyway on alternatives this season. Again, a way could've been found. Samba wouldn't have left had we not gone for Henderson. Choices made by the club. And new players coming in should be replacements for the Lolleys and Bongs, and building a better squad on the foundation of last season's successful side. Its a convenient excuse to say it was out of our control.

I understand the point you are making Pap, but your point is made in hindsight. Remember back to when we signed Lingard and Henderson. These were marque signings. Fans were overwhelmed by the message and intentions the club were making. Both England internationals wanting to prove their worth and get back into Southgates reckoning. Why would we want to hang on to Zinkernagel when Jess Lingard is in the side? Why would you want to bow down to a petulant goalkeeper when you have just signed not just an England international goalkeeper, but the Welsh one also? 

I do agree that the replacement players should have been upgrades on the Bongs and Lolleys, but a lot of the new signings also had international pedigree, so were upgrades on what we had, theoretically anyway. Lodi (Brazil), Awoniyi and Dennis (Nigeria), Freuler (Switzerland), Mangala (Belgium) to name but a few. All on paper are worthy upgrades on what we had. 

The fact is that so many of our signings have international experience which should have bolstered our side considerably but the vast majority of the signings have so far underwhelmed and underperformed, which for me at least, highlights to other factors being in play resulting in our poor performances. What those factors are though, I honestly don't know.

Yep, this is really the point ive been making for a while now. If people are saying the reason for our poor season is because of the loss of the loanees then this is entirety the clubs doing. They were starstruck by the big names and thought they were upgrading massively. But the world of football thinks it was madness what we did. Did no one in the club have the foresight to realise this? Did Cooper object or was he complicit? If he was, then he's been shown to be massively nieve thinking he could integrate these new players while also achieving results in the prem.

Or, here's an alternate theory. The players we've brought in are talented individuals who should by now be comfortable playing alongside each other and Cooper is just not getting a tune out of them because he's got no top flight experience and is struggling himself to come to terms with the challenge? People just wont accept this may be a possible scenario and use the 'we had no choice but to buy' as an excuse not to address this possibility.