Stevie Cooper

[Shawoddyred]

A long time fan and occasional poster but feel I need to add my comments on the ongoing will he/won't he, would he/should he debate. 

I did pm this earlier in the week and nothing since has changed my mind or view.

I have said since early in preseason he has not looked the same guy who won promotion. Yes the euphoria of that day at Wembley would, I am sure, have made even the most doom laden individual smile, jump around, and hardly able to contain themselves. Roll forwards only a meter of a few weeks, we report back for training, we beginning to sign players - although there was a gap between Awonyi and Niakhate arriving, yet still we see a comparatively downbeat Cooper, his comms with the media are some way short in terms of enthusiasm for the task ahead, they sound more like spoon fed (or force fed) soundbites. Then we get to preseason, which I am on record at the time with a number of people, as saying was shambolic and was in danger of seeing us unprepared for the first game of the season. I have been a fan of football for many a long year, played the game and have family members who have played professionally. The way we went through the preseason games was - let's just say odd. We never progressively established our preferred starting combinations as the squad developed, units were given very little time to build an on field connection - between themselves let alone other areas of the pitch!! Let me be clear, there was time.

Let's also be frank, it's no good fans suggesting the team need time to gel etc, the game is littered with many examples of teams recruiting heavily and hitting the ground running. I accept the opposite is also true BUT, we have been consistently told by the man himself, that we only recruit the right character, the guys who GET what we are and wht we want to achieve. On that basis you would more reasonably expect the team, or the vast majority of it, to gel very early - in preseason. You also assume Cooper MUST have had a very good idea who of last seasons team that remained would be a starter in the PL (we assume that would be Worrall, Yates, Johnson, McKenna and dependant on signings, Cook - these names are regulars on the team sheet even though we sign many alternatives). If that is the case we had pretty much half a team set so recruiting around them should not have been so difficult - more so when we sign Awonyi and Niakhate and, in principle, Henderson, early in the window. Yes of course we added significantly more as we well know BUT, on the basis any sensible manager in any other industry would be looking at a one for one type replacement as each new player arrived i.e. Mangala replacement for Yates etc you would say it shouldn't have seen the opening performance we provided away at Newcastle. We as fans could see they ended the season strongly under Howe and with decent recruitment coupled with the opening game at home, optimism high and a raucous crowd, we went there and produced a completely disjointed, low key performance. Sure the defence played manfully but as a team we were woefully undercooked!! An admission by Cooper himself to that effect was shocking given we had 6 preseason games, 4 within around 10-12 days and a chance to get good minutes into people like, as an example, Lingard, just didn't happen - we gave 30 mins here and there and never in a combination likely to start the first game of the season. In fact Lingard only started the final game against Villarreal yet had been with us for at least two games previous. 

Cooper's body language has been almost as shocking as his team selections over the last few weeks - getting progressively worse with each game. All of this flies completely in the face of everything we have seen and grown to appreciate about him over the season before.

In short and sorry for the rant, but I would NOT be unhappy to see him leave. I am incredibly grateful for what he achieved but we must safeguard our new status a s PL team. 

One final thought, you would think a number of players are unhappy at the way things are going but I want to focus on one for now. How can a player like Remo Freuler be tempted away from Atalanta, a top 4 team, Champions League football, their captain and known as the conductor for the way he orchestrates play - and that's not mentioning him being a proven international for Switzerland!!! yet here he cannot get into a side that contains Yates and or O Brien (who I do think he will be a more than capable option by the way, but against the pedigree of Freuler!?) is beyond me completely. How he is deemed an option against Man City when so much else was wrong in that game, a continuation of the 3 number 10's, Kouyate dropping into the back three in only his second game, Lodi coming straight in after what could only have been one training session and to face perhaps the best team in the world - at their ground is just....well baffling to put it mildly. Freuler would be well within his rights to be knocking an the hierarchy's door asking serious questions - I know I would if it were me. All of this and we persist with Worrall, Yates, McKenna and Johnson. Worrall is out of his depth, McKenna would be fine with the right defenders alongside him I feel, currently Yates for me is just not a 90 mins PL player, bring him off the bench for sure but not a starter, Johnson, despite scoring two goals, has barely made an impact and again needs benching before his confidence is completely shot. Why we didn't start with Boly in place of Cook on Saturday is staggering, he has had a preseason at Wolves and could/should have started ahead of Cook - a man Bournemouth thought wasn't good enough for the PL. 

Something is evidently amiss with Cooper and if it's him angling for a move then we should pre-empt and make a decision for him. Our owner has lofty ambitions for this club and, as we know, has some impressive persuasive powers. Whether he could tempt Pochettino is to be seen but we need someone of that ilk.

An interesting post with lots of possible truths but also possible not truths. Unless you're more connected than you make out. Some bits I definitely agree with - the gelling bit especially, I think it is a bit overplayed. At the same time, there could be plenty of other reasons for a lot of what else you say. The bit about Frueler....I wrote when he signed that I thought he would end up our player of the season, the kind of understated but effective player in the middle we all love....but at the same time, Atlanta allowed him to come here for not much money, perhaps he isn't as great as a lot of us, me included, hope?! I agree about the 3 that are currently playing up front, I would prefer Awoniyi or Dennis through the middle. I don't agree about Brennan in particular though, he doesn't do too much over 90 minutes, but what he does do is usually far more important and effective than the majority...his finishing is excellent for example. 

As I say, some interesting thoughts and I could all be correct....but maybe it's not all down to Steve, maybe all of it is, maybe some is, maybe none is. Someone said something the other day that we have the fewest coaches in the PL, that can't help. I said the other day, perhaps Steven Reid had a really big influence on the team and him leaving has had a major impact, like Peter Taylor? 

We had a rubbish situation against Bournemouth and there have been some things I thought slightly odd decisions, but I would currently prefer Steve to stay based on what I actually know. I also know that if I was an ambitious manager but wanted to be allowed to talk to other clubs, I would not be sabotaging myself deliberately. And if I was an owner who knew that a manager was sabotaging themselves, I would dismiss them and take them to court so I'm not sure that's an option. 

Who knows.

[RedRuss]

"Let's also be frank, it's no good fans suggesting the team need time to gel etc, the game is littered with many examples of teams recruiting heavily and hitting the ground running"

Can you name them? I can't remember a single good example of a team essentially buying a whole new team and immediately gelling after 6 games.

There are elements of your post I agree with and clearly some odd decisions have been made. However the idea that after 6 games it's at a stage where you can make those kind of judgements on a guy that has transformed the club is baffling to me. What a short memory.

Also, you criticised him for picking Lodi after one training session then criticise him for not picking Boly in the identical situation!

That said despite disagreeing with both the tone, content and overall message, I would say it was a well written argument nevertheless!

Wassy, I can assure you there is nothing wrong with my memory, nor my eyes and I know what I am seeing. You may disagree with what I have written, that's what forums are all about, but it is what I both see and currently think. We are in a very strange season for any number of reasons - the use of five subs, World Cup mid season and that of course takes some negotiating but I am less than convinced that is being negotiated in a way that would see progress. 

As for naming teams that have successfully gelled after a high turnover of players well you need to look around the leagues and even venture into Scotland, they are there. Of course the term successful is subjective and everyone will have a different view of what that is but in this instance I would suggest avoiding relegation would be successful.

You say I contradict myself re Boly, not really. Boly has played in English football, in the Premier League so has a very good understanding of the game here. Lodi (who let me be clear, is an excellent player and one we will benefit from hugely) has not played in the PL previously and, despite him being a Brazil international, was thrown into our most difficult game of the season after only one training session - it just looks odd. 

Finally, do I think we should get rid of Cooper? Well as I hope or hoped I had made clear, if he wants to stay, if he loves the club as much as he told us last season then signing a contract should have been a given. He had just achieved the impossible and was an absolute high - both emotionally and professionally (with the possible exception of winning the U17's World Cup). You would argue this would be more likely given the financial support provided by EM in the transfer window yet, a week on, as far as we know, it remains unsigned. Now Brighton it seems are wanting to talk to him and we get no rebuttal. 

All I am saying is the evidence does support something is amiss and two simple actions would put most of that to bed. 

It's up to you if you disagree, I have no problem with that. In the end we all want the best for the club, it maybe we see how we get there slightly differently.

[Username]

A long time fan and occasional poster but feel I need to add my comments on the ongoing will he/won't he, would he/should he debate. 

I did pm this earlier in the week and nothing since has changed my mind or view.

I have said since early in preseason he has not looked the same guy who won promotion. Yes the euphoria of that day at Wembley would, I am sure, have made even the most doom laden individual smile, jump around, and hardly able to contain themselves. Roll forwards only a meter of a few weeks, we report back for training, we beginning to sign players - although there was a gap between Awonyi and Niakhate arriving, yet still we see a comparatively downbeat Cooper, his comms with the media are some way short in terms of enthusiasm for the task ahead, they sound more like spoon fed (or force fed) soundbites. Then we get to preseason, which I am on record at the time with a number of people, as saying was shambolic and was in danger of seeing us unprepared for the first game of the season. I have been a fan of football for many a long year, played the game and have family members who have played professionally. The way we went through the preseason games was - let's just say odd. We never progressively established our preferred starting combinations as the squad developed, units were given very little time to build an on field connection - between themselves let alone other areas of the pitch!! Let me be clear, there was time.

Let's also be frank, it's no good fans suggesting the team need time to gel etc, the game is littered with many examples of teams recruiting heavily and hitting the ground running. I accept the opposite is also true BUT, we have been consistently told by the man himself, that we only recruit the right character, the guys who GET what we are and wht we want to achieve. On that basis you would more reasonably expect the team, or the vast majority of it, to gel very early - in preseason. You also assume Cooper MUST have had a very good idea who of last seasons team that remained would be a starter in the PL (we assume that would be Worrall, Yates, Johnson, McKenna and dependant on signings, Cook - these names are regulars on the team sheet even though we sign many alternatives). If that is the case we had pretty much half a team set so recruiting around them should not have been so difficult - more so when we sign Awonyi and Niakhate and, in principle, Henderson, early in the window. Yes of course we added significantly more as we well know BUT, on the basis any sensible manager in any other industry would be looking at a one for one type replacement as each new player arrived i.e. Mangala replacement for Yates etc you would say it shouldn't have seen the opening performance we provided away at Newcastle. We as fans could see they ended the season strongly under Howe and with decent recruitment coupled with the opening game at home, optimism high and a raucous crowd, we went there and produced a completely disjointed, low key performance. Sure the defence played manfully but as a team we were woefully undercooked!! An admission by Cooper himself to that effect was shocking given we had 6 preseason games, 4 within around 10-12 days and a chance to get good minutes into people like, as an example, Lingard, just didn't happen - we gave 30 mins here and there and never in a combination likely to start the first game of the season. In fact Lingard only started the final game against Villarreal yet had been with us for at least two games previous. 

Cooper's body language has been almost as shocking as his team selections over the last few weeks - getting progressively worse with each game. All of this flies completely in the face of everything we have seen and grown to appreciate about him over the season before.

In short and sorry for the rant, but I would NOT be unhappy to see him leave. I am incredibly grateful for what he achieved but we must safeguard our new status a s PL team. 

One final thought, you would think a number of players are unhappy at the way things are going but I want to focus on one for now. How can a player like Remo Freuler be tempted away from Atalanta, a top 4 team, Champions League football, their captain and known as the conductor for the way he orchestrates play - and that's not mentioning him being a proven international for Switzerland!!! yet here he cannot get into a side that contains Yates and or O Brien (who I do think he will be a more than capable option by the way, but against the pedigree of Freuler!?) is beyond me completely. How he is deemed an option against Man City when so much else was wrong in that game, a continuation of the 3 number 10's, Kouyate dropping into the back three in only his second game, Lodi coming straight in after what could only have been one training session and to face perhaps the best team in the world - at their ground is just....well baffling to put it mildly. Freuler would be well within his rights to be knocking an the hierarchy's door asking serious questions - I know I would if it were me. All of this and we persist with Worrall, Yates, McKenna and Johnson. Worrall is out of his depth, McKenna would be fine with the right defenders alongside him I feel, currently Yates for me is just not a 90 mins PL player, bring him off the bench for sure but not a starter, Johnson, despite scoring two goals, has barely made an impact and again needs benching before his confidence is completely shot. Why we didn't start with Boly in place of Cook on Saturday is staggering, he has had a preseason at Wolves and could/should have started ahead of Cook - a man Bournemouth thought wasn't good enough for the PL. 

Something is evidently amiss with Cooper and if it's him angling for a move then we should pre-empt and make a decision for him. Our owner has lofty ambitions for this club and, as we know, has some impressive persuasive powers. Whether he could tempt Pochettino is to be seen but we need someone of that ilk.

Cracking post chap

[RedRuss]

A long time fan and occasional poster but feel I need to add my comments on the ongoing will he/won't he, would he/should he debate. 

I did pm this earlier in the week and nothing since has changed my mind or view.

I have said since early in preseason he has not looked the same guy who won promotion. Yes the euphoria of that day at Wembley would, I am sure, have made even the most doom laden individual smile, jump around, and hardly able to contain themselves. Roll forwards only a meter of a few weeks, we report back for training, we beginning to sign players - although there was a gap between Awonyi and Niakhate arriving, yet still we see a comparatively downbeat Cooper, his comms with the media are some way short in terms of enthusiasm for the task ahead, they sound more like spoon fed (or force fed) soundbites. Then we get to preseason, which I am on record at the time with a number of people, as saying was shambolic and was in danger of seeing us unprepared for the first game of the season. I have been a fan of football for many a long year, played the game and have family members who have played professionally. The way we went through the preseason games was - let's just say odd. We never progressively established our preferred starting combinations as the squad developed, units were given very little time to build an on field connection - between themselves let alone other areas of the pitch!! Let me be clear, there was time.

Let's also be frank, it's no good fans suggesting the team need time to gel etc, the game is littered with many examples of teams recruiting heavily and hitting the ground running. I accept the opposite is also true BUT, we have been consistently told by the man himself, that we only recruit the right character, the guys who GET what we are and wht we want to achieve. On that basis you would more reasonably expect the team, or the vast majority of it, to gel very early - in preseason. You also assume Cooper MUST have had a very good idea who of last seasons team that remained would be a starter in the PL (we assume that would be Worrall, Yates, Johnson, McKenna and dependant on signings, Cook - these names are regulars on the team sheet even though we sign many alternatives). If that is the case we had pretty much half a team set so recruiting around them should not have been so difficult - more so when we sign Awonyi and Niakhate and, in principle, Henderson, early in the window. Yes of course we added significantly more as we well know BUT, on the basis any sensible manager in any other industry would be looking at a one for one type replacement as each new player arrived i.e. Mangala replacement for Yates etc you would say it shouldn't have seen the opening performance we provided away at Newcastle. We as fans could see they ended the season strongly under Howe and with decent recruitment coupled with the opening game at home, optimism high and a raucous crowd, we went there and produced a completely disjointed, low key performance. Sure the defence played manfully but as a team we were woefully undercooked!! An admission by Cooper himself to that effect was shocking given we had 6 preseason games, 4 within around 10-12 days and a chance to get good minutes into people like, as an example, Lingard, just didn't happen - we gave 30 mins here and there and never in a combination likely to start the first game of the season. In fact Lingard only started the final game against Villarreal yet had been with us for at least two games previous. 

Cooper's body language has been almost as shocking as his team selections over the last few weeks - getting progressively worse with each game. All of this flies completely in the face of everything we have seen and grown to appreciate about him over the season before.

In short and sorry for the rant, but I would NOT be unhappy to see him leave. I am incredibly grateful for what he achieved but we must safeguard our new status a s PL team. 

One final thought, you would think a number of players are unhappy at the way things are going but I want to focus on one for now. How can a player like Remo Freuler be tempted away from Atalanta, a top 4 team, Champions League football, their captain and known as the conductor for the way he orchestrates play - and that's not mentioning him being a proven international for Switzerland!!! yet here he cannot get into a side that contains Yates and or O Brien (who I do think he will be a more than capable option by the way, but against the pedigree of Freuler!?) is beyond me completely. How he is deemed an option against Man City when so much else was wrong in that game, a continuation of the 3 number 10's, Kouyate dropping into the back three in only his second game, Lodi coming straight in after what could only have been one training session and to face perhaps the best team in the world - at their ground is just....well baffling to put it mildly. Freuler would be well within his rights to be knocking an the hierarchy's door asking serious questions - I know I would if it were me. All of this and we persist with Worrall, Yates, McKenna and Johnson. Worrall is out of his depth, McKenna would be fine with the right defenders alongside him I feel, currently Yates for me is just not a 90 mins PL player, bring him off the bench for sure but not a starter, Johnson, despite scoring two goals, has barely made an impact and again needs benching before his confidence is completely shot. Why we didn't start with Boly in place of Cook on Saturday is staggering, he has had a preseason at Wolves and could/should have started ahead of Cook - a man Bournemouth thought wasn't good enough for the PL. 

Something is evidently amiss with Cooper and if it's him angling for a move then we should pre-empt and make a decision for him. Our owner has lofty ambitions for this club and, as we know, has some impressive persuasive powers. Whether he could tempt Pochettino is to be seen but we need someone of that ilk.

Cracking post chap

Thanks, trust me, I don't get any pleasure in saying it, I would rather it be the opposite

[wassy04]

"Let's also be frank, it's no good fans suggesting the team need time to gel etc, the game is littered with many examples of teams recruiting heavily and hitting the ground running"

Can you name them? I can't remember a single good example of a team essentially buying a whole new team and immediately gelling after 6 games.

There are elements of your post I agree with and clearly some odd decisions have been made. However the idea that after 6 games it's at a stage where you can make those kind of judgements on a guy that has transformed the club is baffling to me. What a short memory.

Also, you criticised him for picking Lodi after one training session then criticise him for not picking Boly in the identical situation!

That said despite disagreeing with both the tone, content and overall message, I would say it was a well written argument nevertheless!

Wassy, I can assure you there is nothing wrong with my memory, nor my eyes and I know what I am seeing. You may disagree with what I have written, that's what forums are all about, but it is what I both see and currently think. We are in a very strange season for any number of reasons - the use of five subs, World Cup mid season and that of course takes some negotiating but I am less than convinced that is being negotiated in a way that would see progress. 

As for naming teams that have successfully gelled after a high turnover of players well you need to look around the leagues and even venture into Scotland, they are there. Of course the term successful is subjective and everyone will have a different view of what that is but in this instance I would suggest avoiding relegation would be successful.

You say I contradict myself re Boly, not really. Boly has played in English football, in the Premier League so has a very good understanding of the game here. Lodi (who let me be clear, is an excellent player and one we will benefit from hugely) has not played in the PL previously and, despite him being a Brazil international, was thrown into our most difficult game of the season after only one training session - it just looks odd. 

Finally, do I think we should get rid of Cooper? Well as I hope or hoped I had made clear, if he wants to stay, if he loves the club as much as he told us last season then signing a contract should have been a given. He had just achieved the impossible and was an absolute high - both emotionally and professionally (with the possible exception of winning the U17's World Cup). You would argue this would be more likely given the financial support provided by EM in the transfer window yet, a week on, as far as we know, it remains unsigned. Now Brighton it seems are wanting to talk to him and we get no rebuttal. 

All I am saying is the evidence does support something is amiss and two simple actions would put most of that to bed. 

It's up to you if you disagree, I have no problem with that. In the end we all want the best for the club, it maybe we see how we get there slightly differently.

I do agree something has clearly happened and there are odd things going on, I remain hopeful these are issues that can be fixed though. Plus whatever has gone on does not suddenly make Cooper a bad manager and not deserving of time, particularly given we do not know what it is.

Give it time on the rebuttal/contract stuff, I'm hoping this situation perhaps forces his hand a little to sign it, it hasn't been 24 hours yet and we have at least a week off now.

In answer to my question though, no you are not able to name a single team that has immediately gelled after a high turnover of players!  :giggle: If you name a few I'd be happy to see the comparison. Also, if you're naming avoiding relegation as success factor it is probably not fair to judge the team after 6 games, well in the knowledge that these early games will be harder while the team gets to know each other. Plus you said "Hit the ground running", not avoid relegation!

[RedRuss]

"Let's also be frank, it's no good fans suggesting the team need time to gel etc, the game is littered with many examples of teams recruiting heavily and hitting the ground running"

Can you name them? I can't remember a single good example of a team essentially buying a whole new team and immediately gelling after 6 games.

There are elements of your post I agree with and clearly some odd decisions have been made. However the idea that after 6 games it's at a stage where you can make those kind of judgements on a guy that has transformed the club is baffling to me. What a short memory.

Also, you criticised him for picking Lodi after one training session then criticise him for not picking Boly in the identical situation!

That said despite disagreeing with both the tone, content and overall message, I would say it was a well written argument nevertheless!

Wassy, I can assure you there is nothing wrong with my memory, nor my eyes and I know what I am seeing. You may disagree with what I have written, that's what forums are all about, but it is what I both see and currently think. We are in a very strange season for any number of reasons - the use of five subs, World Cup mid season and that of course takes some negotiating but I am less than convinced that is being negotiated in a way that would see progress. 

As for naming teams that have successfully gelled after a high turnover of players well you need to look around the leagues and even venture into Scotland, they are there. Of course the term successful is subjective and everyone will have a different view of what that is but in this instance I would suggest avoiding relegation would be successful.

You say I contradict myself re Boly, not really. Boly has played in English football, in the Premier League so has a very good understanding of the game here. Lodi (who let me be clear, is an excellent player and one we will benefit from hugely) has not played in the PL previously and, despite him being a Brazil international, was thrown into our most difficult game of the season after only one training session - it just looks odd. 

Finally, do I think we should get rid of Cooper? Well as I hope or hoped I had made clear, if he wants to stay, if he loves the club as much as he told us last season then signing a contract should have been a given. He had just achieved the impossible and was an absolute high - both emotionally and professionally (with the possible exception of winning the U17's World Cup). You would argue this would be more likely given the financial support provided by EM in the transfer window yet, a week on, as far as we know, it remains unsigned. Now Brighton it seems are wanting to talk to him and we get no rebuttal. 

All I am saying is the evidence does support something is amiss and two simple actions would put most of that to bed. 

It's up to you if you disagree, I have no problem with that. In the end we all want the best for the club, it maybe we see how we get there slightly differently.

I do agree something has clearly happened and there are odd things going on, I remain hopeful these are issues that can be fixed though. Plus whatever has gone on does not suddenly make Cooper a bad manager and not deserving of time, particularly given we do not know what it is.

Give it time on the rebuttal/contract stuff, I'm hoping this situation perhaps forces his hand a little to sign it, it hasn't been 24 hours yet and we have at least a week off now.

In answer to my question though, no you are not able to name a single team that has immediately gelled after a high turnover of players!  :giggle: If you name a few I'd be happy to see the comparison. Also, if you're naming avoiding relegation as success factor it is probably not fair to judge the team after 6 games, well in the knowledge that these early games will be harder while the team gets to know each other. Plus you said "Hit the ground running", not avoid relegation!

Wassy, as I said, I am not looking for an arguement and it's fine for you to disagree. I chose not to list teans that had a high influx of players and hit the ground running. One such is at the end of the A52, we all know their troubles but they signed some 15 or so players yet have managed a reasonably decent start to life in L1 - yes they went down not up but it is still relevant. 

You also mix to of my comments. Yes I said hit the ground running as in they didn't need to wait for the team to gel and were not necessarily still figuring their starting 11 or formation - there you may have me as I haven't looked at each side or individual performance, kine up or formation. Also, if you read my original post I did say Cooper must have knownat least four and naybe five of last years side were going to be starters this term - that much is clear based upon team selections to date. Also we knew Samba was leaving and quickly moved for Henderson. Given that Cook has started because of Niakhate's injury that means five if last years team us Henderson (who I'm assuming we all agree is an upgrade on Samba) has six of the starting eleven 'fixed'. What we then have is integrating a further five new joins, two or three of which joined early or reasonably so and a further two in time to have been up to speed before now - in my view.

My comment on avoiding relegation was a measure of success and not directly linked to the previous 'hit the ground running' comment. The two can be used and not contradict each other as you are implying.

[Username]

"Let's also be frank, it's no good fans suggesting the team need time to gel etc, the game is littered with many examples of teams recruiting heavily and hitting the ground running"

Can you name them? I can't remember a single good example of a team essentially buying a whole new team and immediately gelling after 6 games.

There are elements of your post I agree with and clearly some odd decisions have been made. However the idea that after 6 games it's at a stage where you can make those kind of judgements on a guy that has transformed the club is baffling to me. What a short memory.

Also, you criticised him for picking Lodi after one training session then criticise him for not picking Boly in the identical situation!

That said despite disagreeing with both the tone, content and overall message, I would say it was a well written argument nevertheless!

Wassy, I can assure you there is nothing wrong with my memory, nor my eyes and I know what I am seeing. You may disagree with what I have written, that's what forums are all about, but it is what I both see and currently think. We are in a very strange season for any number of reasons - the use of five subs, World Cup mid season and that of course takes some negotiating but I am less than convinced that is being negotiated in a way that would see progress. 

As for naming teams that have successfully gelled after a high turnover of players well you need to look around the leagues and even venture into Scotland, they are there. Of course the term successful is subjective and everyone will have a different view of what that is but in this instance I would suggest avoiding relegation would be successful.

You say I contradict myself re Boly, not really. Boly has played in English football, in the Premier League so has a very good understanding of the game here. Lodi (who let me be clear, is an excellent player and one we will benefit from hugely) has not played in the PL previously and, despite him being a Brazil international, was thrown into our most difficult game of the season after only one training session - it just looks odd. 

Finally, do I think we should get rid of Cooper? Well as I hope or hoped I had made clear, if he wants to stay, if he loves the club as much as he told us last season then signing a contract should have been a given. He had just achieved the impossible and was an absolute high - both emotionally and professionally (with the possible exception of winning the U17's World Cup). You would argue this would be more likely given the financial support provided by EM in the transfer window yet, a week on, as far as we know, it remains unsigned. Now Brighton it seems are wanting to talk to him and we get no rebuttal. 

All I am saying is the evidence does support something is amiss and two simple actions would put most of that to bed. 

It's up to you if you disagree, I have no problem with that. In the end we all want the best for the club, it maybe we see how we get there slightly differently.

I do agree something has clearly happened and there are odd things going on, I remain hopeful these are issues that can be fixed though. Plus whatever has gone on does not suddenly make Cooper a bad manager and not deserving of time, particularly given we do not know what it is.

Give it time on the rebuttal/contract stuff, I'm hoping this situation perhaps forces his hand a little to sign it, it hasn't been 24 hours yet and we have at least a week off now.

In answer to my question though, no you are not able to name a single team that has immediately gelled after a high turnover of players!  :giggle: If you name a few I'd be happy to see the comparison. Also, if you're naming avoiding relegation as success factor it is probably not fair to judge the team after 6 games, well in the knowledge that these early games will be harder while the team gets to know each other. Plus you said "Hit the ground running", not avoid relegation!

I’ve only thought about it for the whole of ten seconds and Leeds in League One the season we got promoted easily springs to mind.

[JWJW]

Put simply.......if Cooper wanted to stay, he would have signed his new contract.

He has not.

Which means, he is currently not happy to stay and may be looking around for more money.

That I am afraid is the simple naked truth. If he wants to stay why has he not signed his contract offer ?

[DR Forest]

Such speculation is premature.
Maybe there is a gentleman’s agreement between cooper and EM?
Maybe the club are the ones pausing whilst they see if he performs, not the other way round?

Who knows, but adding 2+2 to get 5 helps no one.

The passing of the queen may give cooper 4 weeks to work on the squad. Effectively a whole pre season whilst they are all match fit.
It’s exactly what the club, the squad and the manager need to instill tactics and work out his best team and perhaps get the injured 3 back too.
The next 3 league games will be massive and it’s the results of those games that I think may decide Cooper’s future, not a mistake at Everton and one bad half against Bournemouth.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Put simply.......if Cooper wanted to stay, he would have signed his new contract.

He has not.

Which means, he is currently not happy to stay and may be looking around for more money.

That I am afraid is the simple naked truth.  If he wants to stay why has he not signed his contract offer ?

It's not about money.

[Colnago]

Put simply.......if Cooper wanted to stay, he would have signed his new contract.

He has not.

Which means, he is currently not happy to stay and may be looking around for more money.

That I am afraid is the simple naked truth.  If he wants to stay why has he not signed his contract offer ?

It's not about money.

Does it really matter what it’s about ? Not signed his contract so as it stands less than 12 months left on it . If Brighton want him he ll be gone

[JWJW]

If its not money, it can only be about power............does he want to be named "manager" and not "coach" ???