Thoughts On The Next Nottingham Forest Manager

[ThePromisedLand]

As a player - absolute legend! No argument.
As a coach/manager - an unmitigated disaster.

30 players, £30 million spent and can't string 3 passes together more fits 'unmitigated disaster', make that unmitigated cowardly cheating disaster

game for game, point for point AK does not beat SP, factor in spending and number of players, I see an unmitigated disaster looming, ie piles of devalued bodies no one wants

performance in the transfer market?  no comparision

total unprecedented success v ... potentially unmitigated disaster, Britt, Antonio and Burke all go back to Pearce and huge positive transfer dealing.

has AK ever actually sold a player for a profit or introduced an academy player?

Stuart Pearce was carrying the whole club on his shoulders, he needed a decent support network around him instead of Judas's

Don’t quote numbers just to try & prove your point - and if you do make sure they’re accurate.
And ‘cowardly’! What planet are you on?

[Strawberry Avenger]

But 'fair play' to Leeds fans (not the joke ref', of course...) they backed their team with vociferous noise for the 15 minutes period when the ref' didn't give a thing Forest's way and that momentum led to the goal.

...and Leeds were 'so-so' and losing 1:0.

Perhaps something a packed City Ground can learn from...when their team are a goal down against Norwich?

SA.

---

12th man and all that...

Leeds had their 12th man...and perhaps because of that, their 13th man in terms of the ref' losing it.

14th if you include the fact that the 'assistant' didn't see a blatant handball either...

SA.

[Maltared]

Strawberry alot of comploments towards AK from your side as if he is doing what Billy did in his first spell...in this division it doesnt matter where you finished the previous season..i dont understand why some people keep using it as an excuse...what matter is by how much the manager has been backed...Birmingham r shoulder to shoulder with us...same Blackburn...how much did they spend? Where did they finish last season? This two season progression is a myth..nd we know it ourselves as from a play off place we followed it by a relegation fighting season...other teams experienced it too...its now or never...Leeds have been knocking on a promotion or at least a play off spot for years...they start well nd end up mid table...Fulham went from a season that survived the drop only in the last games...following year...play offs nd promotion...Ipswich have been knocking on the play offs door for the last years under McCarthy...this year they might get relegated....so to conclude...or we get promotion this year or next year we have to start afresh...with new on loan players nd with experienced players a year older nd need replacing...that will amount to half the team...

[Strawberry Avenger]

Forest are 7th in the table.

They've neutralised the Leeds. They had to cheat to win.

Beaten a Pullis side, Boro' on their home patch.

Played WBA off the park.

Forest aren't the only team that have dropped points. I'm sure Boro', Leeds and WBA fans thought they'd walk a 'newly formed' Forest side. They were proven very wrong.

Boro' have spent far more than Forest in the last several years. And yet, here they are, in the Championship, a mere few points ahead.

Money doesn't guarantee promotion. It's a good start relative to a side like Burton who had very little to spend last season. It's not the only factor. Birmingham are proof that money isn't everything. But it can 'help.' Birmingham have had money...and lost it. There's always a side 'like that' that seems to do well.

A 1/3rd of the season gone.

It does matter where you finish last season.

Forest have been bottom 8 for the last how many seasons...?

Now they are comfortably top 8. That's real progress.

Having outplayed, beaten or neutralised 3 of the sides that have been in the no.1 spot. When was the last time Forest did that?

Forest have beaten 'bottom' teams in Rotherham or Bolton. Something perennial softies, Forest, never tend to do.

Forest, under Aitor, are not softies.

They are progressing upwards. That's the trend.

Billy is history. Aitor has Forest being tough, robust, mix it, play a bit...scoring goals and getting harder to beat with every game. How many games have Forest lost?

It's not even Christmas yet... :)

Heading in the right direction with January on its way...

SA.

[GaribaldiRED]

Pearce was a great player but a mediocre manager.  People weren't happy with him when the initial results dried up and Forest dropped 'like a stone.'

Maybe Pearce would have done better under our current owners?  Maybe Davies would?

Karanka is the first manager who has been backed to completely tear up the old squad and 'shake the bag' and churn nearly a whole squad.

The trend under Pearce was a downward trend.  The trend under Warburton was a downward trend.  The trend for the last several years before Aitor was relegation threatened finishing lower and lower.

The trend under Aitor is, on balance, upward.  They've placed 5th (highest so far...) and currently (7th) - given where Forest have come from, that significant progress against teams that are at least a year a head of them, in general.  Forest are building their momentum.  I think this team would be great guns with a 2nd season behind them.  And that's, generally, the pattern...that it takes a couple of seasons to start to really turn things around.

Aitor is shrewd.  Following a gutless display vs Preston, has had the mandate to throw out the mercenaries...the sulkers the mediocre.

Forest have recruited well.  January was an 'emergency' window when the momentum was downwards...and potentially relegation.  That transfer window put the emergency breaks on that.

This Summer transfer window was an unprecedented success.  16 players.  All of a good overall standard that has lifted the squad from a Bottom 8 club, by-passed the middle 8 and gone straight into the 'Top 8.'

Actor's Forest (he deserves the credit as well as any criticism) neutralised Leeds but for the hand of cheat.  Forest would have been 4 points off top.  But are a 'disastrous' 6 points off top.  Beat Sheff UTD next week and they are 3 points off the top?  2 points off the play offs.

Consider.  Of the three teams that have occupied the no.1 spot so far.  Forest have beaten Boro' on their home patch, clean sheet.  Should have beaten Leeds 1:0 on their patch...and played WBA off the park and should have won 1:0.

(and against the sucker punch teams like Rotherham or Bolton (who we lost to last season) we have found resolve to win or stuffed them 3:0).  That's progress.  Beating the top and bottom teams for the perennial gifters like Forest.

Frustrations abound when a 'developing' team lose the momentum against Norwich, concede two late goals vs Millwall or concede a late goal vs Leeds.  Add those points up and Forest go 2nd, 1 point off top.

The Forest project is on schedule...or ahead of it.

Aitor is ruthless and without mercy.  He's slowly turning his Forest side into a reflection of him.  He took two seasons to do it at Boro'.  He deserves at least two here.  There's every chance Forest can make the play offs this season.

Of the top teams Forest have played, none of them have blown Forest away.  The only team that was agile and good on the ball, Leeds, were neutralised.  That, my san, is a good manager.  As good as we can expect to have at this level.

SA.

Spot on SA  :cool:

[stirred]

Of course we've made good progress from a year ago - we have a rebuilt, and I think a play-offs or autos, squad.

Who should get credit for that squad (though would be nice to have another forward)? The manager, or the owner and DoF etc? Does anyone know what degree manager, DoF etc are involved in the signing / squad building process?

But given the squad we have, I think we play overly defensive football, and the team selection and subs are at time perplexing. He can't be compared to Warburton or our league position under him cos as you said SA, he was given the chance to rebuild the squad. And he did a bunch of that rebuilding in January - 8 of yesterdays starting 11 were already here or signed in January - so each week that goes by, the whole 'time to gel' argument gets ever less convincing. 7th place isn't the point, or 5th, or whatever. The point is we're underachieving.

[ThePromisedLand]

Clearly some difference of opinion on this one.
For me we’re not ‘underachieving’ - I would certainly have taken 7th place at this stage before a ball was kicked at the start of the season.

[GaribaldiRED]

I believe you are a man that has made up your mind regarding Karanka and even if we get promoted you will probably still argue that we play "overly defensive football". My first instinct tells me that it make no sense to try and argue with you and I think I will stick with that but just out of curiosity is it the formation 4-2-3-1 that is overly defensive or is it how you perceive the team is deploying it? And, in your mind is it the players who is underachieving or is it Karanka who is making them underachieve?

[Strawberry Avenger]

The club as a whole take the credit for Forest's progress on the pitch.

...and the 'new squad' are gradually getting used to the way Karanka wants them to play. It demands more from all the team. You can't have 3-4 slacking and the rest 'doing it.'

There were one or two who didn't quite turn up for Forest last night. Given that, last night's performance is even more impressive.

I think Boro' fans would have taken the way Aitor's Forest played as we put them on the mat to the tune of 2:0. Aitor's Forest are far more attacking than the Boro' side he gave them.

I think one or two Boro' fans were surprised. A club that have spent far more money than Forest in recent years.

It was Aitor, after all, that got them in the Premiership...

Maybe if we actually stick with a manager for more than a year...he might actually do the same for us?

SA.

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In January, vs Preston, Forest were at a new low, looking shot of confidence and out on their feet.

Ten months later, Forest went to Leeds and neutralised them. On their own pitch.

Beat Sheff UTD and there is something in the offing. A true test of Aitor's Forest. We'll see what next Sat' brings. But the performances against all the teams that have been No.1, WBA, Boro' and Leeds? Augers well.

How many times have Forest lost this season?

SA.

[PsychoStanleyStone]

this is my last comment on anything NFFC for a while

Karanka is an unmitigated disaster, ok 7th but in reality we are 1 point off mid table, in effect we are vying with 9 other teams pretty much equalish for a play off spot, even then only 1 gets to the promised

when we are all drooling over just missing out on 3 points after having 1 attempt on goal v leeds, the Forest fans are clutching at straws

there is no progress, a good manager gets 5 quality players in and turns things around

a good manager grafts players in at the right time

the set up for every game is Neanderthal and predictable and tedious

Karanka does not talk to most of the players, he doesn't do the arm round the shoulder, you upset Karanka and that is it. It isn't just that he is rolling out slow oldies onto the pitch, many players are already alienated from him

Karanka has no personality except a dour, depressing demeanor, he cannot give a good interview, at least Warnock gives a good interview and you feel he can get a message or idea or tactics over to players

I hate warnocks, pulis's, karankas, this is my problem, it is my choice, a manager like Slaviša Jokanović is expansive, positive, though still in a job, but this guy is head and shoulders above Karanka, 2nd most goals scored and best gd last season, but I know Jan is foul time to takeover a club

warburtons last game, £30m and 20 plus 'better' players than now, 68% ish possession, 20 chances, 1 chance by sunderland ... sacked, fair enough, blinkered

I sort of think managers need to be blinkered and ultimately if they are good and get the better players and improve what they have they will perfect their plan A particularly if the focus is on creating lots of chances and being offensive and sending a team out believing they are better or have an edge over the opposition. We are nowhere near this.

I look at Forest and see a shipwreck, it's confusing. I thought the late 'signings' Karim, Tachi and Yacob resulted collectively in a good transfer window even though a ridiculous number of players really, but these 3 haven't happened and the core Portugese could be lurching towards failure, the 14 comprise of a few good 5 years ago and loans who we won't see the long term benefits.

Nigel Clough set his team up to play football and score.

We set up the same every game virtually, too slow, rigid, negative, I don't know, I watch most of the games on poor watery, buffering streams I don't know exactly where it is going wrong

I know who is to blame and this guy Karanka is destroying the club and already pretty much destroyed the ethos and virtually all entertainment, leeds was diabolical, a point yes, 1 shot on target, 30% possession, leeds may well end up mid table

November and December have been horrific months for Forest in recent seasons, I predict nearer 17th than 7th come Jan 1st

To be honest I just want Forest fans to be rewarded for turning up and not insulted

Draws are good if you are winning 6 and drawing 4, they are no good if you are winning 1 and drawing 3, draw all season and you get relegated

My problem is I hate Karanka, I do try to get behind him on match days especially if I can see the game somehow. I don't mind even if it is a smash and grab or occasional diabolical performance and we get something, I didn't feel anything after the leeds game, except the leeds players conspiring to give the corner that led to a good header goal

I love NFFC, I hate Karankerism though I think now the damage is done because this guy will still be in the job boring us all shitless for eternity

I will long for the day and will leap for joy when Karanka is sacked

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Bloody hell mate, that is a bit over the top is it not?

[Mozzer1]

I dont understand the correlation of Performance and results that generate the messiah like status and singalongs