Budget - Speculate To Accumulate?

[Paplane]

Where is the money coming from for him to back it up? Danes back pocket? You could argue Dane may well of been hung out to dry too.

I'm finding it absolutely ludicrous that there's some finger pointing at Murphy for what's going on this transfer window. The only scenario in which that would be justified is - in my opinion - if we had a decent budget to play with and we'd not landed the signings that were apparently identified earlier in the summer. The types of player we've been linked with lately doesn't seem to back that up.

As others have suggested, I think - and I don't know, it's just an opinion - we were banking on a big sale to fund incomings. It looks like Worrall to Brentford was the one, and for whatever reason that didn't happen. Now we can't afford the fees the clubs are asking for the players we identified earlier so we're having to cut our cloth accordingly.

This is all supposition but the logic behind it is sound.

Totally mate, nail and head spring to mind, exactly the reason I find any criticism of Murphy ludicrous. You have said what I have said for a little while now in that post.

My critisim of Murphy relates to 1) the lashing the manager has received and 2) the way the transition has happened. 

Firstly, I seem to be ne of only a few fans who realises that this side CH is putting out is not the one he would wish to and even without the injuries its poorer this season that the one that ended last. He's having to play Colback and Yates (which he didn't do at all last year) and front up to the media and defend it when he knows himself it's kack. He says after every game that he is limited and that he needs players and needs them quick. It's Dane's job to make it happen and he's not done it. Maybe CH needs to learn how to beat his chest like Billy Davies used to.

Secondly, Dane's sold this algorism type approach to transfers to the club. That's fair enough and we can all see the benefits I'm sure. But he's the top man in all this. It's he that's implementing the change. No-one else. What he hasn't done is manage the transition to the new way properly. He's sanctioned the release of players and elected not to renew loans without bringing in replacements and now we're woefully under resourced on the pitch. Also, and I appreciate this is subjective, he appears to have underestimated the cost of players his computer says he should buy, or not appreciated what our budget is and how far it needs to be stretched to be able to implement his approach. 

Those are two very fair criticisms in my book. They're not ludicrous.

They are both ludicrous if the money is not available which seems to be the case mate. We put our eggs in the worrall leaving basket. 

Who is Danes boss to step in and pull him up on his poor performance? Danes boss is Vrentzos.

I am a 100% certain if we sold Worrall today you would see the desired incomings by the end of the week.

I'm sure we would but it's Dane who's put our eggs in the Worrall leaving basket, he's the boss now. He's the master of the algorism. He can sanction a deviation away from it in the short term by fire fighting the team and sanctioning the signing of Christie, for example, because he's the boss. Vrentzos is an easy scapegoat for fans who know nothing of what's going on with him or what's happend in the past. In my book if we are critisiing Vrentzos, then Dane's fair game too.  I don't want to be critical, I just feel I have to put out an alternative view point which I think is valid based on the limited info we have.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Where is the money coming from for him to back it up? Danes back pocket? You could argue Dane may well of been hung out to dry too.

I'm finding it absolutely ludicrous that there's some finger pointing at Murphy for what's going on this transfer window. The only scenario in which that would be justified is - in my opinion - if we had a decent budget to play with and we'd not landed the signings that were apparently identified earlier in the summer. The types of player we've been linked with lately doesn't seem to back that up.

As others have suggested, I think - and I don't know, it's just an opinion - we were banking on a big sale to fund incomings. It looks like Worrall to Brentford was the one, and for whatever reason that didn't happen. Now we can't afford the fees the clubs are asking for the players we identified earlier so we're having to cut our cloth accordingly.

This is all supposition but the logic behind it is sound.

Totally mate, nail and head spring to mind, exactly the reason I find any criticism of Murphy ludicrous. You have said what I have said for a little while now in that post.

My critisim of Murphy relates to 1) the lashing the manager has received and 2) the way the transition has happened. 

Firstly, I seem to be ne of only a few fans who realises that this side CH is putting out is not the one he would wish to and even without the injuries its poorer this season that the one that ended last. He's having to play Colback and Yates (which he didn't do at all last year) and front up to the media and defend it when he knows himself it's kack. He says after every game that he is limited and that he needs players and needs them quick. It's Dane's job to make it happen and he's not done it. Maybe CH needs to learn how to beat his chest like Billy Davies used to.

Secondly, Dane's sold this algorism type approach to transfers to the club. That's fair enough and we can all see the benefits I'm sure. But he's the top man in all this. It's he that's implementing the change. No-one else. What he hasn't done is manage the transition to the new way properly. He's sanctioned the release of players and elected not to renew loans without bringing in replacements and now we're woefully under resourced on the pitch. Also, and I appreciate this is subjective, he appears to have underestimated the cost of players his computer says he should buy, or not appreciated what our budget is and how far it needs to be stretched to be able to implement his approach. 

Those are two very fair criticisms in my book. They're not ludicrous.

They are both ludicrous if the money is not available which seems to be the case mate. We put our eggs in the worrall leaving basket. 

Who is Danes boss to step in and pull him up on his poor performance? Danes boss is Vrentzos.

I am a 100% certain if we sold Worrall today you would see the desired incomings by the end of the week.

Interesting thoughts.

We have sold talent to fund incomings in previous seasons?  Appiah etc.  When was the last time we sold a 'young gun' for big bucks?

Cash?  £15 million.  Was all the money from that used for last season or was half of it held back for this or to make sure we're well within FFP?  And using the wages of the 14 players out to cover the wages for the incomings?

It's perhaps reasonable we're stashing so much of the Cash money to keep us FFP compliant and the other half for the Summer war chest which seems 8-10 million if you add up the targets this far.  For 5 players that's 2 million each.  In addition to the largely loans we've brought in so far.  So not much room to over pay.  We've probably got a 'fee' max per position.

And that's probably below what clubs want, maybe.

SA.

[Marinakis Red]

I'm finding it absolutely ludicrous that there's some finger pointing at Murphy for what's going on this transfer window. The only scenario in which that would be justified is - in my opinion - if we had a decent budget to play with and we'd not landed the signings that were apparently identified earlier in the summer. The types of player we've been linked with lately doesn't seem to back that up.

As others have suggested, I think - and I don't know, it's just an opinion - we were banking on a big sale to fund incomings. It looks like Worrall to Brentford was the one, and for whatever reason that didn't happen. Now we can't afford the fees the clubs are asking for the players we identified earlier so we're having to cut our cloth accordingly.

This is all supposition but the logic behind it is sound.

Totally mate, nail and head spring to mind, exactly the reason I find any criticism of Murphy ludicrous. You have said what I have said for a little while now in that post.

My critisim of Murphy relates to 1) the lashing the manager has received and 2) the way the transition has happened. 

Firstly, I seem to be ne of only a few fans who realises that this side CH is putting out is not the one he would wish to and even without the injuries its poorer this season that the one that ended last. He's having to play Colback and Yates (which he didn't do at all last year) and front up to the media and defend it when he knows himself it's kack. He says after every game that he is limited and that he needs players and needs them quick. It's Dane's job to make it happen and he's not done it. Maybe CH needs to learn how to beat his chest like Billy Davies used to.

Secondly, Dane's sold this algorism type approach to transfers to the club. That's fair enough and we can all see the benefits I'm sure. But he's the top man in all this. It's he that's implementing the change. No-one else. What he hasn't done is manage the transition to the new way properly. He's sanctioned the release of players and elected not to renew loans without bringing in replacements and now we're woefully under resourced on the pitch. Also, and I appreciate this is subjective, he appears to have underestimated the cost of players his computer says he should buy, or not appreciated what our budget is and how far it needs to be stretched to be able to implement his approach. 

Those are two very fair criticisms in my book. They're not ludicrous.

They are both ludicrous if the money is not available which seems to be the case mate. We put our eggs in the worrall leaving basket. 

Who is Danes boss to step in and pull him up on his poor performance? Danes boss is Vrentzos.

I am a 100% certain if we sold Worrall today you would see the desired incomings by the end of the week.

I'm sure we would but it's Dane who's put our eggs in the Worrall leaving basket, he's the boss now. He's the master of the algorism. He can sanction a deviation away from it in the short term by fire fighting the team and sanctioning the signing of Christie, for example, because he's the boss. Vrentzos is an easy scapegoat for fans who know nothing of what's going on with him or what's happend in the past. In my book if we are critisiing Vrentzos, then Dane's fair game too.  I don't want to be critical, I just feel I have to put out an alternative view point which I think is valid based on the limited info we have.

 Then our planning for this summer has been shocking. He has been with us 6 weeks so he is not to blame. Where was the money for this list Brazil drew up way before Dane arrived. If that plan included selling worrall to fund it then again how is that Danes fault? If it didnt? Where is the money?

[Paplane]

Totally mate, nail and head spring to mind, exactly the reason I find any criticism of Murphy ludicrous. You have said what I have said for a little while now in that post.

My critisim of Murphy relates to 1) the lashing the manager has received and 2) the way the transition has happened. 

Firstly, I seem to be ne of only a few fans who realises that this side CH is putting out is not the one he would wish to and even without the injuries its poorer this season that the one that ended last. He's having to play Colback and Yates (which he didn't do at all last year) and front up to the media and defend it when he knows himself it's kack. He says after every game that he is limited and that he needs players and needs them quick. It's Dane's job to make it happen and he's not done it. Maybe CH needs to learn how to beat his chest like Billy Davies used to.

Secondly, Dane's sold this algorism type approach to transfers to the club. That's fair enough and we can all see the benefits I'm sure. But he's the top man in all this. It's he that's implementing the change. No-one else. What he hasn't done is manage the transition to the new way properly. He's sanctioned the release of players and elected not to renew loans without bringing in replacements and now we're woefully under resourced on the pitch. Also, and I appreciate this is subjective, he appears to have underestimated the cost of players his computer says he should buy, or not appreciated what our budget is and how far it needs to be stretched to be able to implement his approach. 

Those are two very fair criticisms in my book. They're not ludicrous.

They are both ludicrous if the money is not available which seems to be the case mate. We put our eggs in the worrall leaving basket. 

Who is Danes boss to step in and pull him up on his poor performance? Danes boss is Vrentzos.

I am a 100% certain if we sold Worrall today you would see the desired incomings by the end of the week.

I'm sure we would but it's Dane who's put our eggs in the Worrall leaving basket, he's the boss now. He's the master of the algorism. He can sanction a deviation away from it in the short term by fire fighting the team and sanctioning the signing of Christie, for example, because he's the boss. Vrentzos is an easy scapegoat for fans who know nothing of what's going on with him or what's happend in the past. In my book if we are critisiing Vrentzos, then Dane's fair game too.  I don't want to be critical, I just feel I have to put out an alternative view point which I think is valid based on the limited info we have.

 Then our planning for this summer has been shocking. He has been with us 6 weeks so he is not to blame. Where was the ash for this list Brazil drew up way before Dane arrived. If that plan included selling worrall to fund it then again how is that Danes fault? If it didnt? Where is the money?

Then our planning for this summer has been shocking. 
Agreed. We should've got Dane in and then taken a holding season to enable him to have a decent run into next summer's window.

He has been with us 6 weeks so he is not to blame. 
So what's he been doing for 6 weeks? He's had more than enough time to evaluate the market, the squad, the manager's thoughts. He's been able to make bids in that time too so he's not sitting there and doing nothing.

Where was the cash for this list Brazil drew up way before Dane arrived.
Do you honestly think the club didn't have some serious and lengthy discussions with Dane before he arrived? He wont have just turned up on day one to learn about the (lack of) budget. He will have been able to advise before the plan was put into place that he didn't think the budget would be sufficient for the goals set for recruitment 

If that plan included selling Worrall to fund it then again how is that Danes fault? If it didnt? Where is the money?
Worrall could have broken his leg at the first pre-season game, or just refused to move. It can happen. There must have been scenario's in 'the plan' to cover the eventuality that there would be a lack of a sale.  It seems to me he's gambled he would sell Worrall and that's not happened. He's now had to back track and revert to plan B, while CH lashes up the side and takes the hit for it.

[Marinakis Red]

My critisim of Murphy relates to 1) the lashing the manager has received and 2) the way the transition has happened. 

Firstly, I seem to be ne of only a few fans who realises that this side CH is putting out is not the one he would wish to and even without the injuries its poorer this season that the one that ended last. He's having to play Colback and Yates (which he didn't do at all last year) and front up to the media and defend it when he knows himself it's kack. He says after every game that he is limited and that he needs players and needs them quick. It's Dane's job to make it happen and he's not done it. Maybe CH needs to learn how to beat his chest like Billy Davies used to.

Secondly, Dane's sold this algorism type approach to transfers to the club. That's fair enough and we can all see the benefits I'm sure. But he's the top man in all this. It's he that's implementing the change. No-one else. What he hasn't done is manage the transition to the new way properly. He's sanctioned the release of players and elected not to renew loans without bringing in replacements and now we're woefully under resourced on the pitch. Also, and I appreciate this is subjective, he appears to have underestimated the cost of players his computer says he should buy, or not appreciated what our budget is and how far it needs to be stretched to be able to implement his approach. 

Those are two very fair criticisms in my book. They're not ludicrous.

They are both ludicrous if the money is not available which seems to be the case mate. We put our eggs in the worrall leaving basket. 

Who is Danes boss to step in and pull him up on his poor performance? Danes boss is Vrentzos.

I am a 100% certain if we sold Worrall today you would see the desired incomings by the end of the week.

I'm sure we would but it's Dane who's put our eggs in the Worrall leaving basket, he's the boss now. He's the master of the algorism. He can sanction a deviation away from it in the short term by fire fighting the team and sanctioning the signing of Christie, for example, because he's the boss. Vrentzos is an easy scapegoat for fans who know nothing of what's going on with him or what's happend in the past. In my book if we are critisiing Vrentzos, then Dane's fair game too.  I don't want to be critical, I just feel I have to put out an alternative view point which I think is valid based on the limited info we have.

 Then our planning for this summer has been shocking. He has been with us 6 weeks so he is not to blame. Where was the ash for this list Brazil drew up way before Dane arrived. If that plan included selling worrall to fund it then again how is that Danes fault? If it didnt? Where is the money?

Then our planning for this summer has been shocking. 
Agreed. We should've got Dane in and then taken a holding season to enable him to have a decent run into next summer's window.

He has been with us 6 weeks so he is not to blame. 
So what's he been doing for 6 weeks? He's had more than enough time to evaluate the market, the squad, the manager's thoughts. He's been able to make bids in that time too so he's not sitting there and doing nothing.

Where was the cash for this list Brazil drew up way before Dane arrived.
Do you honestly think the club didn't have some serious and lengthy discussions with Dane before he arrived? He wont have just turned up on day one to learn about the (lack of) budget. He will have been able to advise before the plan was put into place that he didn't think the budget would be sufficient for the goals set for recruitment 

If that plan included selling Worrall to fund it then again how is that Danes fault? If it didnt? Where is the money?
Worrall could have broken his leg at the first pre-season game, or just refused to move. It can happen. There must have been scenario's in 'the plan' to cover the eventuality that there would be a lack of a sale.  It seems to me he's gambled he would sell Worrall and that's not happened. He's now had to back track and revert to plan B, while CH lashes up the side and takes the hit for it.

Bids with what money Pap? He sorted a deal for harroui, now tell me why that did not go through? We have stalled. In terms of where the money is I've not had an answer to it yet.

Without going over point over and over again, I will end up getting tedious too. The worrall decision would of been made prior to his arrival, unfortunately that how we have been run for a while now. We have sold every summer for the last 4 years to be able to spend. That is not Danes fault either. I'd imagine the plan sold to Dane included the worrall sale too. It has not happened. 

But hey let Danes boss vrentzos sort this mess out. As I've said previously the big man will have to loosen the purse strings and fast.

[Paplane]

They are both ludicrous if the money is not available which seems to be the case mate. We put our eggs in the worrall leaving basket. 

Who is Danes boss to step in and pull him up on his poor performance? Danes boss is Vrentzos.

I am a 100% certain if we sold Worrall today you would see the desired incomings by the end of the week.

I'm sure we would but it's Dane who's put our eggs in the Worrall leaving basket, he's the boss now. He's the master of the algorism. He can sanction a deviation away from it in the short term by fire fighting the team and sanctioning the signing of Christie, for example, because he's the boss. Vrentzos is an easy scapegoat for fans who know nothing of what's going on with him or what's happend in the past. In my book if we are critisiing Vrentzos, then Dane's fair game too.  I don't want to be critical, I just feel I have to put out an alternative view point which I think is valid based on the limited info we have.

 Then our planning for this summer has been shocking. He has been with us 6 weeks so he is not to blame. Where was the ash for this list Brazil drew up way before Dane arrived. If that plan included selling worrall to fund it then again how is that Danes fault? If it didnt? Where is the money?

Then our planning for this summer has been shocking. 
Agreed. We should've got Dane in and then taken a holding season to enable him to have a decent run into next summer's window.

He has been with us 6 weeks so he is not to blame. 
So what's he been doing for 6 weeks? He's had more than enough time to evaluate the market, the squad, the manager's thoughts. He's been able to make bids in that time too so he's not sitting there and doing nothing.

Where was the cash for this list Brazil drew up way before Dane arrived.
Do you honestly think the club didn't have some serious and lengthy discussions with Dane before he arrived? He wont have just turned up on day one to learn about the (lack of) budget. He will have been able to advise before the plan was put into place that he didn't think the budget would be sufficient for the goals set for recruitment 

If that plan included selling Worrall to fund it then again how is that Danes fault? If it didnt? Where is the money?
Worrall could have broken his leg at the first pre-season game, or just refused to move. It can happen. There must have been scenario's in 'the plan' to cover the eventuality that there would be a lack of a sale.  It seems to me he's gambled he would sell Worrall and that's not happened. He's now had to back track and revert to plan B, while CH lashes up the side and takes the hit for it.

Bids with what money Pap? I've not had an answer to it yet. Without going over point over and over again, I will end up getting tedious too. The worrall decision would of been made prior to his arrival, unfortunately that how we have been run for a while now. We have sold every summer for the last 4 years to be able to spend. That is not Danes fault either. I'd imagine the plan sold to Dane included the worrall sale too. It has not happened. 

But het let Danes boss vrentzos sort this mess out. As I've said previously the big man will have to loosen the purse strings and fast.

There is cash imo. I reckon for the last 4 seasons we've raised about £8m a year in sales. Last season we got £15m for Cash. I reckon that's funding us at a minimal base level this window. We clearly have a small budget for players this season. We put bids into 'crisis' clubs Derby and Reading to try to test their resolve. If those clubs were desperate we would've completed on some transfers from them weeks ago. We've put small bids in for players who are clearly valued at more than we feel they're worth. We have money to spend, just not much of it, and certainly not enough to land all our targets even if they're on the modest list. All that just reinforces my arguments. The issue is not that EM wont provide the money, it's that we have very little leeway in ffp terms. All that will have been apparent with or without a Worral sale.

Why have players been allowed to leave the club? Two left backs have left under Dane's watch. We have a perfectly adequate reserve RB sitting in the stands under Dane's watch. He's never going to walk on his contract. Why aren't we using him?

And you don't know that Vrentzos is Dane's boss do you?  You're just as out of order in saying that as you claim I am for critising Dane. Both arguments are based on our perceptions of what we think the arrangement is. We dont know whats going on internally, what involvement Vrentzos is having. I personally hope he steps in and sorts a few transfers out.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Danes boss Vrentzos?

You couldn't make it up. You are joking right?

So is Johnny Owen Danes boss too?

[Marinakis Red]

Danes boss Vrentzos?

You couldn't make it up. You are joking right?

So is Johnny Owen Danes boss too?

Listen to his first interview again, Colin Fray specifically asks the question who he reports in to and he answers it,so is he lying now? VRENTZOS will be the go between Murphy and Marinakis. 

Do you want me to send you the interview sniff? You'll hear it. Cannot believe Dane would lie in his first interview.

[wassy04]

I'm sure we would but it's Dane who's put our eggs in the Worrall leaving basket, he's the boss now. He's the master of the algorism. He can sanction a deviation away from it in the short term by fire fighting the team and sanctioning the signing of Christie, for example, because he's the boss. Vrentzos is an easy scapegoat for fans who know nothing of what's going on with him or what's happend in the past. In my book if we are critisiing Vrentzos, then Dane's fair game too.  I don't want to be critical, I just feel I have to put out an alternative view point which I think is valid based on the limited info we have.

 Then our planning for this summer has been shocking. He has been with us 6 weeks so he is not to blame. Where was the ash for this list Brazil drew up way before Dane arrived. If that plan included selling worrall to fund it then again how is that Danes fault? If it didnt? Where is the money?

Then our planning for this summer has been shocking. 
Agreed. We should've got Dane in and then taken a holding season to enable him to have a decent run into next summer's window.

He has been with us 6 weeks so he is not to blame. 
So what's he been doing for 6 weeks? He's had more than enough time to evaluate the market, the squad, the manager's thoughts. He's been able to make bids in that time too so he's not sitting there and doing nothing.

Where was the cash for this list Brazil drew up way before Dane arrived.
Do you honestly think the club didn't have some serious and lengthy discussions with Dane before he arrived? He wont have just turned up on day one to learn about the (lack of) budget. He will have been able to advise before the plan was put into place that he didn't think the budget would be sufficient for the goals set for recruitment 

If that plan included selling Worrall to fund it then again how is that Danes fault? If it didnt? Where is the money?
Worrall could have broken his leg at the first pre-season game, or just refused to move. It can happen. There must have been scenario's in 'the plan' to cover the eventuality that there would be a lack of a sale.  It seems to me he's gambled he would sell Worrall and that's not happened. He's now had to back track and revert to plan B, while CH lashes up the side and takes the hit for it.

Bids with what money Pap? I've not had an answer to it yet. Without going over point over and over again, I will end up getting tedious too. The worrall decision would of been made prior to his arrival, unfortunately that how we have been run for a while now. We have sold every summer for the last 4 years to be able to spend. That is not Danes fault either. I'd imagine the plan sold to Dane included the worrall sale too. It has not happened. 

But het let Danes boss vrentzos sort this mess out. As I've said previously the big man will have to loosen the purse strings and fast.

There is cash imo. I reckon for the last 4 seasons we've raised about £8m a year in sales. Last season we got £15m for Cash. I reckon that's funding us at a minimal base level this window. We clearly have a small budget for players this season. We put bids into 'crisis' clubs Derby and Reading to try to test their resolve. If those clubs were desperate we would've completed on some transfers from them weeks ago. We've put small bids in for players who are clearly valued at more than we feel they're worth. We have money to spend, just not much of it, and certainly not enough to land all our targets even if they're on the modest list. All that just reinforces my arguments. The issue is not that EM wont provide the money, it's that we have very little leeway in ffp terms. All that will have been apparent with or without a Worral sale.

Why have players been allowed to leave the club? Two left backs have left under Dane's watch. We have a perfectly adequate reserve RB sitting in the stands under Dane's watch. He's never going to walk on his contract. Why aren't we using him?

And you don't know that Vrentzos is Dane's boss do you?  You're just as out of order in saying that as you claim I am for critising Dane. Both arguments are based on our perceptions of what we think the arrangement is. We dont know whats going on internally, what involvement Vrentzos is having. I personally hope he steps in and sorts a few transfers out.

Come on Jenkinson is shit, I'd definitely rather Back played. :D

[Marinakis Red]

I'm sure we would but it's Dane who's put our eggs in the Worrall leaving basket, he's the boss now. He's the master of the algorism. He can sanction a deviation away from it in the short term by fire fighting the team and sanctioning the signing of Christie, for example, because he's the boss. Vrentzos is an easy scapegoat for fans who know nothing of what's going on with him or what's happend in the past. In my book if we are critisiing Vrentzos, then Dane's fair game too.  I don't want to be critical, I just feel I have to put out an alternative view point which I think is valid based on the limited info we have.

 Then our planning for this summer has been shocking. He has been with us 6 weeks so he is not to blame. Where was the ash for this list Brazil drew up way before Dane arrived. If that plan included selling worrall to fund it then again how is that Danes fault? If it didnt? Where is the money?

Then our planning for this summer has been shocking. 
Agreed. We should've got Dane in and then taken a holding season to enable him to have a decent run into next summer's window.

He has been with us 6 weeks so he is not to blame. 
So what's he been doing for 6 weeks? He's had more than enough time to evaluate the market, the squad, the manager's thoughts. He's been able to make bids in that time too so he's not sitting there and doing nothing.

Where was the cash for this list Brazil drew up way before Dane arrived.
Do you honestly think the club didn't have some serious and lengthy discussions with Dane before he arrived? He wont have just turned up on day one to learn about the (lack of) budget. He will have been able to advise before the plan was put into place that he didn't think the budget would be sufficient for the goals set for recruitment 

If that plan included selling Worrall to fund it then again how is that Danes fault? If it didnt? Where is the money?
Worrall could have broken his leg at the first pre-season game, or just refused to move. It can happen. There must have been scenario's in 'the plan' to cover the eventuality that there would be a lack of a sale.  It seems to me he's gambled he would sell Worrall and that's not happened. He's now had to back track and revert to plan B, while CH lashes up the side and takes the hit for it.

Bids with what money Pap? I've not had an answer to it yet. Without going over point over and over again, I will end up getting tedious too. The worrall decision would of been made prior to his arrival, unfortunately that how we have been run for a while now. We have sold every summer for the last 4 years to be able to spend. That is not Danes fault either. I'd imagine the plan sold to Dane included the worrall sale too. It has not happened. 

But het let Danes boss vrentzos sort this mess out. As I've said previously the big man will have to loosen the purse strings and fast.

There is cash imo. I reckon for the last 4 seasons we've raised about £8m a year in sales. Last season we got £15m for Cash. I reckon that's funding us at a minimal base level this window. We clearly have a small budget for players this season. We put bids into 'crisis' clubs Derby and Reading to try to test their resolve. If those clubs were desperate we would've completed on some transfers from them weeks ago. We've put small bids in for players who are clearly valued at more than we feel they're worth. We have money to spend, just not much of it, and certainly not enough to land all our targets even if they're on the modest list. All that just reinforces my arguments. The issue is not that EM wont provide the money, it's that we have very little leeway in ffp terms. All that will have been apparent with or without a Worral sale.

Why have players been allowed to leave the club? Two left backs have left under Dane's watch. We have a perfectly adequate reserve RB sitting in the stands under Dane's watch. He's never going to walk on his contract. Why aren't we using him?

And you don't know that Vrentzos is Dane's boss do you?  You're just as out of order in saying that as you claim I am for critising Dane. Both arguments are based on our perceptions of what we think the arrangement is. We dont know whats going on internally, what involvement Vrentzos is having. I personally hope he steps in and sorts a few transfers out.

I'll point you in the direction of his first interview with colin fray too where he says he reports in to vrentzos and the speak 2/3 times a day. Its not my perception that is exactly what Dane said mate. 

In terms of money that marinakis has that is never in doubt, and if FFP got scrapped then I'm sure we would reap the rewards of it. But unfortunately we are not in that situation right now. And the missing management of money beforehand has screws us this summer with no player sale which they expected through Worrall.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

A go between is not Danes boss MR.

A go between is a go between.

Murphy is the CEO, the CEO runs the club on a day to day basis. Vrentzos has left Nottingham and is in Athens, I know becuase I saw him.

'Hello Mr Murphy and welcome to Nottingham Forest, thanks it's a great honour to be here as the clubs new CEO. Oh sorry Dane I forgot to tell you that you are not in charge. Oh ok no problem don't worry about it'.

[Marinakis Red]

A go between is not Danes boss MR.

A go between is a go between.

Murphy is the CEO, the CEO runs the club on a day to day basis. Vrentzos has left Nottingham and is in Athens, I know becuase I saw him.

'Hello Mr Murphy and welcome to Nottingham Forest, thanks it's a great honour to be here as the clubs new CEO. Oh sorry Dane I forgot to tell you that you are not in charge. Oh ok no problem don't worry about it'.

It very much sounded like a boss to me when I listened to it, maybe have another listen. 

So where is the money then Sniff? You know my thoughts on this summer I kindly sent it in a PM to you. We shall leave it at that for now. 1 week to sell a player that right now nobody wants or Mr Marinakis needs to loosen the purse strings. I'll wait to be stand corrected and openly admit I'm wrong If over the next 7 days we start spending cash without a sale. I'm not talking pittance I'm talking the targets we wanted that right now we cannot afford and that is Danes fault. 

I am going to task him to do my weekly shop on a tenner but I want fillet steak and caviar every night for the next 7, he will not deliver that either.

The world has gone mad  :D