Tactics Formations & Team Selections Etc

[Shawoddyred]

It's not just the players it's how they play it. England played their best game at the euros by a huge amount when phillips pushed forward rather than just sat back with rice. 2 dcms where they both sit is tactically awful for results as well as watching. 2 dcms where 1 steps up into the middle of the pitch to link defense with attack can work extremely well. We do not do this and it must be coming from manager instruction. 1 of our dcms needs to spend most of their time 15 yards further up the pitch.

Colback in parti ular has been looking after the full back as we've been so vulnerable there. If he pressed on we would've been stuffed rather than narrowly beaten.

Disagree. I don't believe that the players we have are as completely inept and useless as a lot of here would make out. I truly think that we make it very easy for the opposition as we carry no attacking intent that they have to defend. As such, their fullbacks can just wander forward and make it worse for our fullbacks. I don't think bong is anywhere near as bad as made out, back has been earning lots of praise, figs has it in him to be excellent but perhaps a bit out of form, samba the same (perhaps the amount of work he has to do means mistakes are made). Honestly, these players would play for other teams in this division and we'd probably wish they were ours over whoever is in our team. 

Not saying we can't improve our personnel, we must definitely can, but they are not being utilised properly in my opinion.

[Paplane]

It's not just the players it's how they play it. England played their best game at the euros by a huge amount when phillips pushed forward rather than just sat back with rice. 2 dcms where they both sit is tactically awful for results as well as watching. 2 dcms where 1 steps up into the middle of the pitch to link defense with attack can work extremely well. We do not do this and it must be coming from manager instruction. 1 of our dcms needs to spend most of their time 15 yards further up the pitch.

Colback in parti ular has been looking after the full back as we've been so vulnerable there. If he pressed on we would've been stuffed rather than narrowly beaten.

Disagree. I don't believe that the players we have are as completely inept and useless as a lot of here would make out. I truly think that we make it very easy for the opposition as we carry no attacking intent that they have to defend. As such, their fullbacks can just wander forward and make it worse for our fullbacks. I don't think bong is anywhere near as bad as made out, back has been earning lots of praise, figs has it in him to be excellent but perhaps a bit out of form, samba the same (perhaps the amount of work he has to do means mistakes are made). Honestly, these players would play for other teams in this division and we'd probably wish they were ours over whoever is in our team. 

Not saying we can't improve our personnel, we must definitely can, but they are not being utilised properly in my opinion.

I agree with you about the full backs, they're not as bad as people think they are but yesterday it was evident that it was a safety first approach because we were so patched up back there. Back had obviously been told to keep it simple, just defend and dont go bombing on. Bong was targeted by Stoke. They obviously thought he was vulnerable. And no criticism from me but Back struggled in the 2nd half as they exposed his area more. The result was that the front 3 were isolated. We bacame more ragged and the result was inevitable. The entire team's approach to the game was compromised due to the full backs.

[Tamzin26]

"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes”

[PsychoStanleyStone]

"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes”

i'm trying to think of a reply, but there is so much risk associated with trying to make a logical coherent response to this, i think i'll leave this to reply to SA!

we could make the answer even more perplexing, how about you can't use the words 'shit' 'players' 'tactics' 'club' recruitment' or 'manager' or combinations thereof

ok go ahead

[Strawberry Avenger]

"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes”

i'm trying to think of a reply, but there is so much risk associated with trying to make a logical coherent response to this, i think i'll leave this to reply to SA!

we could make the answer even more perplexing, how about you can't use the words 'S**t' 'players' 'tactics' 'club' recruitment' or 'manager' or combinations thereof

ok go ahead

Brian.  

(Do you think Hughton would be playing this formation and attritional football if the CEO had provided him with 9 quality players at the start of the season.  It's the kind of thing we do at Forest when we pull the rug from under the manager's feet.  Hughton is just the latest victim.)

SA.

[GaribaldiRED]

"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes”

i'm trying to think of a reply, but there is so much risk associated with trying to make a logical coherent response to this, i think i'll leave this to reply to SA!

we could make the answer even more perplexing, how about you can't use the words 'S**t' 'players' 'tactics' 'club' recruitment' or 'manager' or combinations thereof

ok go ahead

Brian.  

(Do you think Hughton would be playing this formation and attritional football if the CEO had provided him with 9 quality players at the start of the season.  It's the kind of thing we do at Forest when we pull the rug from under the manager's feet.  Hughton is just the latest victim.)

SA.

I hear what you are saying SA but how do you explain why we as a team are still not able to press as one unit? CH has had 1 year to get his message over and we are still struggling to get it right on the pitch. That is what worries me the most.

[Strawberry Avenger]

That's an easy one, G'. Hughton hasn't brought in his own players. New broom sweeps old. But Hughton wasn't affording the luxury of bringing 14 of his own 'trusted' players. Instead, he inherited a random rag tag of players that were never his or ever would be.

Does this matter? I think in organisations it does matter. The clear out is a year too late. Aitor got shut as soon as he could have in January applying his emergency breaks and it still took him half a season to arrest the slide.

Hughton didn't even get Garner or the link man, Krov' until January. And they were both loans. WE didn't bring them back and we reverted to what we were before. A very poor side.

The press is something Forest have been trying to master for a long time. They didn't really get that right under Sabri either.

It boils down to recruitment. The players that are here? They either won't listen or aren't good enough to do it. It must be come down to better recruitment which Forest have struggled with for the 2nd season in a row. So late with recruitment this time that Forest have hit rock bottom. They had their warning last season.

I don't detect a lack of endeavour from the players at Hughton's disposal. He just hasn't been able to make permanent signings for for the way he plays.

Aitor got about 50 million players. How many permanent outfield signings has Hughton made? This Summer or last?

I'm less concerned about the style of football (people weren't happy with Warburton's keep ball either...) or formations. If you don't bring in good players it doesn't matter. The last four games have been close. That's down to Hughton. To turn them into draws or wins? That's down to Dane.

It will be interesting again (tomorrow vs Wolves) to see how the Academy lads get on under Hughton once more. I thought they played some bright, energetic football last time.

It took a while before Forest became the force under Clough in Division 2. You need your own players to play how you want to play, you can hear that in Ishmael's philosophy. Quite simple. The players play to his own high octane style. If they can't through injury or lack of ability you recruit.

Forest haven't had vision and have paid (and currently are paying the price) for their lack of vision. They didn't have a strong base to play to Hughton's strengths...or any other manager.

That's why we sit bottom and eg. Coventry don't. Sure, he plays 'attacking' football. But they've had that bloke for a while and stuck with it.

Forest don't stick with anything unless you count starting from scratch as being consistent.

SA.

[PsychoStanleyStone]

"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes”

i'm trying to think of a reply, but there is so much risk associated with trying to make a logical coherent response to this, i think i'll leave this to reply to SA!

we could make the answer even more perplexing, how about you can't use the words 'S**t' 'players' 'tactics' 'club' recruitment' or 'manager' or combinations thereof

ok go ahead

Brian.  

(Do you think Hughton would be playing this formation and attritional football if the CEO had provided him with 9 quality players at the start of the season.  It's the kind of thing we do at Forest when we pull the rug from under the manager's feet.  Hughton is just the latest victim.)

SA.

SA, i don't think any Forest manager has had '9 quality players' signed at the start of the season, like ever, i think Frank Clark signed 4, 3 were excellent but he lost 2 very good players in Nigel and Roy K, net acquisitions 1 good player

We are at a stage where the best Hughton can be is like a cheque book manager who is surrounded by very good players

Having a weaker/inexperienced side doesn't by default mean we have to play cowardly football, if anything we could be quite strong in offensive players

you could argue, in fact i will, that players, even very good players or potentially very good offensive players need lots of players and runners, this is the fundamental flaw with Hughton, he doesn't believe in his offensive line up and spends all pre match shitting himself about the opposition, this is why he has to go, he will not try anything else, the longer he sticks with the same pathetic set up the more often and more heavily we are gonna get beat

we have no idea to be honest how good we could actually be offensively as in constantly creating overloads or having players running on, we rarely have players running beyond the most advance player, yet this sort of thing would be playing to MIghten, Johnson, Carv's as well as Taylor/Grabbans strengths, appreciate Zinc looks very confident and on his day could possibly win the game on his own

[Strawberry Avenger]

"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes”

i'm trying to think of a reply, but there is so much risk associated with trying to make a logical coherent response to this, i think i'll leave this to reply to SA!

we could make the answer even more perplexing, how about you can't use the words 'S**t' 'players' 'tactics' 'club' recruitment' or 'manager' or combinations thereof

ok go ahead

Brian.  

(Do you think Hughton would be playing this formation and attritional football if the CEO had provided him with 9 quality players at the start of the season.  It's the kind of thing we do at Forest when we pull the rug from under the manager's feet.  Hughton is just the latest victim.)

SA.

SA, i don't think any Forest manager has had '9 quality players' signed at the start of the season, like ever, i think Frank Clark signed 4, 3 were excellent but he lost 2 very good players in Nigel and Roy K, net acquisitions 1 good player

We are at a stage where the best Hughton can be is like a cheque book manager who is surrounded by very good players

Having a weaker/inexperienced side doesn't by default mean we have to play cowardly football, if anything we could be quite strong in offensive players

you could argue, in fact i will, that players, even very good players or potentially very good offensive players need lots of players and runners, this is the fundamental flaw with Hughton, he doesn't believe in his offensive line up and spends all pre match shitting himself about the opposition, this is why he has to go, he will not try anything else, the longer he sticks with the same pathetic set up the more often and more heavily we are gonna get beat

we have no idea to be honest how good we could actually be offensively as in constantly creating overloads or having players running on, we rarely have players running beyond the most advance player, yet this sort of thing would be playing to MIghten, Johnson, Carv's as well as Taylor/Grabbans strengths, appreciate Zinc looks very confident and on his day could possibly win the game on his own

But Forest weren't clearing out 14+ players.  Or starting the season with a vacancy sign over key positions.  Forest were always a building club with a handful of signings to keep 'em ticking over.  That's been replaced with a player churn, rinse and repeat strategy.  Which has now been replaced by the 'pain and patience' strategy. (In fact, the one time Clough did break up his winning side 'too soon' after he and Taylor fell out...it put Forest back and they never quite got back 'there' the same.). We have to think about the consequences of just tearing things up and staring again. And it comes with problems. See the last 20 years. As each time, it's the manager's fault.

This time, it's Hughton's fault. Where is his £6 million striker? (Aitor got one?). Where are his fullbacks? A no.10 who can hack it in this division? A powerful winger? He's the only manger under Mari's tenure to start the season without fullbacks? Pep couldn't get this lot doing it. They haven't got it in their locker. Worrall's out. So no leadership as such at the back. And even if he was, the fullback situation is going to be exploited until we get some lads in who can play there.

You don't have to be check book manager.  And I don't think Hughton is.  He got promoted at Brighton scoring a truck load of goals.  It's not like Brighton were rolling around in it.  And he also got promotion with money (something that several managers who DID have money failed to do...) at Newcastle's Premier squad, again scoring loads of goals.

Still need to recruit players.  And Forest just haven't got the deals done.  Hughton can 'advise and recommend' but he's still waiting.  9 players.  I think our new CEO mentioned that number. :)  

1st of all, it's every manager's fault they don't play Car'.  Now we're not playing to his strengths, a player who is struggling to get the ball, hold the ball, assist with goals or score any.  If you play to Car's strengths, you'll be in Division 2.  

The set up is defensive.  Once you bring in quality players you can open up.  It's that simple.  We don't have the fullbacks to do what you're suggesting.

We can't press because we don't have the players to do it.  We're too pedestrian and predictable.  (A problem that has been here with Aitor and Sabri.)

Open up right now?  You get the romance of Forest trying to play 'The Forest Way' but you'll just get smashed by more goals.  That's nihilistic though.  'We sure showed 'em.  We smashed them 0-5 playing attractive football.  Sure we got may have got smashed but at least we played the Forest Way.' We have a makeshift defence. You're not charging forwards with that lot. n-OPE.

Fans weren't happy with Warburton's football either.

First of all you make yourself hard to beat.  Then you get the players in to help you attack.  We haven't even recruited for the former.  So good luck hoping for the latter.

I like what the manager has done at Coventry. Or what Barnie have achieved. But the comparisons are apples and oranges. As our club has yet to have the strength of its convictions.

We're doing great at Academy and u23s level. But that hasn't funned through to the 1st team. It will. In time.

But we're in for pain whilst we wait. So is Hughton. Who is just a casualty of bad time when appointed last year. And of poor (we haven't for the positions covered) Summer recruitment for the 2nd successive year. We've gone from too many to too little. Forest were already a poor side.

Even Clough got relegated when he sold Teddy and Des'. And he was playing our beloved Forest Way. But toothless and couldn't defend.

SA.

[Redreg]

Honestly looking at players we are targeting is CH thinking of playing a 3-4-3 l
Cannon tutu lowe Buchanan all suited to WB also fast strikers like makiaru and Rodgers , Harroui /garner box to box ball playing CM’s . Soh Wozza Mckenna would make a good 3 aslo the reading kad who plays Right side of a 3 .
Cannot fault the players we are interested in just not getting deals done or paying the money to get them over line also left it too late !!!

[wassy04]

Honestly looking at players we are targeting is CH thinking of playing a 3-4-3 l
Cannon tutu lowe Buchanan all suited to WB also fast strikers like makiaru and Rodgers , Harroui /garner box to box ball playing CM’s . Soh Wozza Mckenna would make a good 3 aslo the reading kad who plays Right side of a 3 .
Cannot fault the players we are interested in just not getting deals done or paying the money to get them over line also left it too late !!!

It's what the majority of the league now play so it wouldn't be a shock. Not sure I could see Hughton doing it but whoever replaces him may well do

[Redreg]

Sounds like we would have 2 good wingbacks in lowe and tutu to play 3-4-3 / 3-5-2 just need Harroui or another cm like that .
Zinc/johno/carv as the 10 in a 5 man mid
Zinc/lolley/Mighten/johno/Makauri as fast fluid front 3
Then I remember CH is manager scrap that idea