Tactics Formations & Team Selections Etc

[GaribaldiRED]

It's reassuring to see that we have so many experts around (not only on this forum but on all social platforms) who know exactly what the issues are and also how to fix them. Apparently it's only CH and his team of coaches that haven't got a clue. How difficult can it be  :D

These types of comments always make me laugh.

What makes an expert? Living and studying something your whole life? Being good at something then managing it? Passing a qualification?

Gary Megson had promotions on his CV.  But there wasn't a man, woman or child in the ground at the CG who couldn't see he was running the club on a none-stop one-way journey to League 1.  Did he change? No.

I, like many other people love and have studied football my whole life.  I've played football to a good competitive standard and understand the nuances of the game.

Doesn't mean i'd be the best manager by a long way.  But it gives me an insight into the game.

Football fans, especially ones who take the time to read, discuss and seek opinion aren't idiots.  

I used to play football with a lad who is now a lead coach at Forest, and he was the single most useless player i've ever played with.  But he understands the game upstairs.  I've played with lads who were pros and represented their country and a couple of them couldn't construct some outdoor furniture let alone a team with anything resembling structure or organisation.

No-one is saying they're a better manager or coach than Hughton.  But it doesn't mean they're wrong when they criticise elements of what he is seeking to do. 

If half of the Government cabinet can be in the positions they are and make the decisions they make with their piss poor management of this nation, I think it's not unreasonable to think people are capable of understanding the nuance of football, systems and the pro's and con's of them, regardless of their status.

It's more than just your knowledge of the game. I always have to watch a replay of the game before I can really say with any kind of confidence how we played. When I watch it the second time I watch without all the tension and nerves and beer and I can play certain passages again and again if I want to. Most people don't do that and because of that I will argue that they are very seldom able to be objective. For most fans it' all about the result. If you score and win you were great if you score and lose you were s***. That is just about as far as the analysis goes (in many cases). 

CH has a full team of coaches and analysts spend hours and hours on analyzing a game where they dig into every little piece of play. I would think that they probably have a better view on the game than most of us fans.

CH is clearly a manager that favors a playing style where it is important to minimize the risk of conceding goals. It's of course different ways of doing that and I believe CH is trying to get the team to press higher at times but I don't yet see that we are doing it as well as we should. For pressing to be efficient the whole team have to actively participate as you all know.

Continuing to attack CH because you want him to adapt a different approach to the game is not very productive in my mind. CH has his way of playing and we have to accept that. I for one haven't given up on him. We will be in the play offs if he is allowed to stay for the full season. I'm 95% sure of that  :D

[GaribaldiRED]

It's reassuring to see that we have so many experts around (not only on this forum but on all social platforms) who know exactly what the issues are and also how to fix them. Apparently it's only CH and his team of coaches that haven't got a clue. How difficult can it be  :D

Ultimately everything being discussed are reasons for him leaving Newcastle, Norwich and Brighton. So I'm presuming those clubs knew nothing and without a clue Gari?

He left Newcastle because Llambias wanted the job for his mate Pardew and it did not go down to well with the supporters, as reported at the time

"Controversy once again hit the club as Chris Hughton was sacked on 6 December 2010 following Newcastle's 3–1 defeat to West Bromwich Albion. The Newcastle United board stated that "the board now feels an individual with more managerial experience is needed to take the club forward".[7] Hughton's dismissal was an unpopular decision with the fans and the players,[8] and was highly criticized by many pundits."[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Newcastle_United_F.C._season#cite_note-10][/url]

To listen to the six fingered faithful in Norwich, Hughton was a disaster; strangely enough he managed them to their highest position in the PL since the 90's, a position they have not come close to achieving since.

Brighton is a different kettle of fish altogether; Hughton managed Brighton to the pitiful league positions of 15th and 17th during his two years in charge in the PL, whereas Potter, who many think is the second coming, managed to propel Brighton to the stratospheric heights of 15th and 16th place finishes.

He departed all three clubs when they were in the PL; his record in the EFL, you know, the league we are in, is second to none.

I'm more referring to the style of play which is very much the discussion amongst the majority of supporters. The style of play was the reason he left all 3 of those clubs ultimately. That is the topic currently, our style of play is very similar to all 3 of those teams. We have not won a championship match in 9 games it will be 10 if we do not register a win in that one. 

We have scored 12 goals in our last 16 championship games. That is not very entertaining by any stretch of the imagination.

The reason for all managers being sacked are ultimately the style of play (usually).

[Jean_claude_killy]

It's reassuring to see that we have so many experts around (not only on this forum but on all social platforms) who know exactly what the issues are and also how to fix them. Apparently it's only CH and his team of coaches that haven't got a clue. How difficult can it be  :D

Ultimately everything being discussed are reasons for him leaving Newcastle, Norwich and Brighton. So I'm presuming those clubs knew nothing and without a clue Gari?

He left Newcastle because Llambias wanted the job for his mate Pardew and it did not go down to well with the supporters, as reported at the time

"Controversy once again hit the club as Chris Hughton was sacked on 6 December 2010 following Newcastle's 3–1 defeat to West Bromwich Albion. The Newcastle United board stated that "the board now feels an individual with more managerial experience is needed to take the club forward".[7] Hughton's dismissal was an unpopular decision with the fans and the players,[8] and was highly criticized by many pundits."[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Newcastle_United_F.C._season#cite_note-10][/url]

To listen to the six fingered faithful in Norwich, Hughton was a disaster; strangely enough he managed them to their highest position in the PL since the 90's, a position they have not come close to achieving since.

Brighton is a different kettle of fish altogether; Hughton managed Brighton to the pitiful league positions of 15th and 17th during his two years in charge in the PL, whereas Potter, who many think is the second coming, managed to propel Brighton to the stratospheric heights of 15th and 16th place finishes.

He departed all three clubs when they were in the PL; his record in the EFL, you know, the league we are in, is second to none.

I'm more referring to the style of play which is very much the discussion amongst the majority of supporters. The style of play was the reason he left all 3 of those clubs ultimately. That is the topic currently, our style of play is very similar to all 3 of those teams. We have not won a championship match in 9 games it will be 10 if we do not register a win in that one. 

We have scored 12 goals in our last 16 championship games. That is not very entertaining by any stretch of the imagination.

He did not get fired from Newcastle for his style of play, so that is clearly not true; there were no complaints about his style of play at Norwich during his first season in the PL, and there were definitely no complaints about his style of play at Brighton in the EFL.

The two teams we have put out this season are markedly different from the ones which finished last season; differing personnel and circumstances make a comparison futile not that that will stop people who have an axe to grind.

At least there has been some attacking intent in both league games, which has not been easy when you consider we have played the best part of both games without a centre forward.

For all of the experts we have on here who have played at a high level, not one of them have mentioned that the centre forward is the fulcrum for all attacks, he holds the ball up links up play and brings others into the game; If the CF does not hold the ball up it usually comes straight back at you, just like it did for most of last season.

Not only is Taylor not the answer but he does not show the slightest inclination of wanting to be the answer; he needs a target man to feed off and we do not have one.

I think I will wait until Hughton has a full squad to call on before I pass judgement.

[GaribaldiRED]

It's reassuring to see that we have so many experts around (not only on this forum but on all social platforms) who know exactly what the issues are and also how to fix them. Apparently it's only CH and his team of coaches that haven't got a clue. How difficult can it be  :D

good also that some will be humble to revisit some of these threads and not just concede 'you were right' but all the how's, why's and where it goes wrong and where it all ends has been laid out in every detail.  Hughton is in a pressure situation, his thinking fixed, he can't change, same outcome as Sabri, maybe even to the exact number of games.  Though if you get of your huge high horse and read carefully you will see that we all wanted him to succeed, but he cannot change, it's like an alcoholic is always an alcoholic, once the pressure is on the same default behaviors click in.  The only way this sequence breaks is if Hughton discards his base collective belief system, like someone who can't swim and drowning, stepping back and teaching themselves to swim under intense pressure, it can't be done.  He cannot betray who he is, i respect him but he don't want anyone to get there monies worth, he doesn't care about the dads who've paid alot of money for his family to enjoy a game of footy and have something fun to celebrate.

If this kind of approach is doomed to fail then how do you explain the success of Atletico Madrid under Diego Simeone?

[Salvatore Matrecano]

[]

The reason for all managers being sacked are ultimately the style of play (usually).

Or being 7th on boxing day
Or being 6th when the CEO thought we should be 2nd
Or losing to Derby
Or because you run players up hills at Wollaton Park in preseason
Or not being iconic enough

Take your pick really

[Marinakis Red]

It's reassuring to see that we have so many experts around (not only on this forum but on all social platforms) who know exactly what the issues are and also how to fix them. Apparently it's only CH and his team of coaches that haven't got a clue. How difficult can it be  :D

Ultimately everything being discussed are reasons for him leaving Newcastle, Norwich and Brighton. So I'm presuming those clubs knew nothing and without a clue Gari?

He left Newcastle because Llambias wanted the job for his mate Pardew and it did not go down to well with the supporters, as reported at the time

"Controversy once again hit the club as Chris Hughton was sacked on 6 December 2010 following Newcastle's 3–1 defeat to West Bromwich Albion. The Newcastle United board stated that "the board now feels an individual with more managerial experience is needed to take the club forward".[7] Hughton's dismissal was an unpopular decision with the fans and the players,[8] and was highly criticized by many pundits."[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Newcastle_United_F.C._season#cite_note-10][/url]

To listen to the six fingered faithful in Norwich, Hughton was a disaster; strangely enough he managed them to their highest position in the PL since the 90's, a position they have not come close to achieving since.

Brighton is a different kettle of fish altogether; Hughton managed Brighton to the pitiful league positions of 15th and 17th during his two years in charge in the PL, whereas Potter, who many think is the second coming, managed to propel Brighton to the stratospheric heights of 15th and 16th place finishes.

He departed all three clubs when they were in the PL; his record in the EFL, you know, the league we are in, is second to none.

I'm more referring to the style of play which is very much the discussion amongst the majority of supporters. The style of play was the reason he left all 3 of those clubs ultimately. That is the topic currently, our style of play is very similar to all 3 of those teams. We have not won a championship match in 9 games it will be 10 if we do not register a win in that one. 

We have scored 12 goals in our last 16 championship games. That is not very entertaining by any stretch of the imagination.

The reason for all managers being sacked are ultimately the style of play (usually).

I'd say results are the reason why most get sacked, uniquely not in regards CH, in any of those 3 jobs, you could say he achieved the objectives of the task in hand, however the quality of football was dire that saw fans turning on him. 

Like I say very unique in football. But you can see the similarities here barring CH hitting his objectives. Winning 2 of the last 16 championship games.

[stirred]

It's reassuring to see that we have so many experts around (not only on this forum but on all social platforms) who know exactly what the issues are and also how to fix them. Apparently it's only CH and his team of coaches that haven't got a clue. How difficult can it be  :D

good also that some will be humble to revisit some of these threads and not just concede 'you were right' but all the how's, why's and where it goes wrong and where it all ends has been laid out in every detail.  Hughton is in a pressure situation, his thinking fixed, he can't change, same outcome as Sabri, maybe even to the exact number of games.  Though if you get of your huge high horse and read carefully you will see that we all wanted him to succeed, but he cannot change, it's like an alcoholic is always an alcoholic, once the pressure is on the same default behaviors click in.  The only way this sequence breaks is if Hughton discards his base collective belief system, like someone who can't swim and drowning, stepping back and teaching themselves to swim under intense pressure, it can't be done.  He cannot betray who he is, i respect him but he don't want anyone to get there monies worth, he doesn't care about the dads who've paid alot of money for his family to enjoy a game of footy and have something fun to celebrate.

This is what really gets to me about him - he clearly doesn't care if we enjoy the game, just on getting a result (1-0 or 0-0). If the child going to the match with his Dad/parents enjoys it. How can he not care about that? It's like he puts 2 fingers up to us each Saturday. How can you sh*t on that part of life, of the child's day out, bonding with his parents. I can't even respect a man who does that.

If a club should have an identity, philosophy etc, it should include cherishing this.

If they are short of money for FFP to pay him off set up a crowdfunding page and we'll have his pieces of silver in no time.

[GaribaldiRED]

CH has a hugely impressive record in the Championship before he went to Forest. Among the top scoring teams each season as well as conceding the fewest but I guess that is irrelevant as it doesn't fit the story.

[Mcforest]

CH is a good manager on paper for sure and even though I wasn’t one of those who was for him I figured he was we needed at the time someone who was going to make us difficult to beat and with any luck keep us up. Which he did. This season I’m hoping he would move away from crises management and just allow the team a bit more freedom to go forward and make life difficult for other teams. Go to win a game or take control of a game. But again we are seeing the don’t lose it and if you do lose don’t lose by a big score. You would just hope to see a bit more urgency during the games, be pro-active especially when a goal behind to 10 men with 30 mins to go.
Now I know he pretty much has the same players and maybe he doesn’t trust these players to do more than sit deep and compact. It may well be true that our players, even one we consider good, are just not championship standard and CH needs more than 5 or 6 signings this window to make us competitive. That said I would have expected to see some sort of improvement just through a year of coaching and playing that system with the players if this is how he want to about it. The problem is we are not seeing that, if anything we are looking more disjointed, more laboured and even less interested in moving the ball at different speeds during a game. It is CH’s job to figure out why and to fix it.
I’m not saying CH needs to be sacked for us to go forward. I still hope he can move us forward but right now he needs to have a bit of a re-think and decide if he is playing the system to suit him or to suit the players. To me on the outside it feels like he is not taking the lessons from the last games and developing the team. Feels more like this will work attitude and we stick with it and I will prove everyone wrong. I hope it does but I’m struggling with it CH.

[stirred]

CH has a hugely impressive record in the Championship before he went to Forest. Among the top scoring teams each season as well as conceding the fewest but I guess that is irrelevant as it doesn't fit the story.

And like many of our signings last summer - Arter, Knockaert, Glen Murray, Colback, Freeman, Bong even - he would probably have been a good signing 5 years ago.

[wassy04]

CH is a good manager on paper for sure and even though I wasn’t one of those who was for him I figured he was we needed at the time someone who was going to make us difficult to beat and with any luck keep us up. Which he did. This season I’m hoping he would move away from crises management and just allow the team a bit more freedom to go forward and make life difficult for other teams. Go to win a game or take control of a game. But again we are seeing the don’t lose it and if you do lose don’t lose by a big score. You would just hope to see a bit more urgency during the games, be pro-active especially when a goal behind to 10 men with 30 mins to go. 
Now I know he pretty much has the same players and maybe he doesn’t trust these players to do more than sit deep and compact. It may well be true that our players, even one we consider good, are just not championship standard and CH needs more than 5 or 6 signings this window to make us competitive. That said I would have expected to see some sort of improvement just through a year of coaching and playing that system with the players if this is how he want to about it. The problem is we are not seeing that, if anything we are looking more disjointed, more laboured and even less interested in moving the ball at different speeds during a game. It is CH’s job to figure out why and to fix it.
I’m not saying CH needs to be sacked for us to go forward. I still hope he can move us forward but right now he needs to have a bit of a re-think and decide if he is playing the system to suit him or to suit the players. To me on the outside it feels like he is not taking the lessons from the last games and developing the team. Feels more like this will work attitude and we stick with it and I will prove everyone wrong. I hope it does but I’m struggling with it CH.

He doesn't have the same players though. He doesn't have a LB, Worrall, Soh, Christie, Garner, Grabban (at least fully fit).

Surely we are looking disjointed because we are missing the above?

[Uwantlee]

CH is a good manager on paper for sure and even though I wasn’t one of those who was for him I figured he was we needed at the time someone who was going to make us difficult to beat and with any luck keep us up. Which he did. This season I’m hoping he would move away from crises management and just allow the team a bit more freedom to go forward and make life difficult for other teams. Go to win a game or take control of a game. But again we are seeing the don’t lose it and if you do lose don’t lose by a big score. You would just hope to see a bit more urgency during the games, be pro-active especially when a goal behind to 10 men with 30 mins to go. 
Now I know he pretty much has the same players and maybe he doesn’t trust these players to do more than sit deep and compact. It may well be true that our players, even one we consider good, are just not championship standard and CH needs more than 5 or 6 signings this window to make us competitive. That said I would have expected to see some sort of improvement just through a year of coaching and playing that system with the players if this is how he want to about it. The problem is we are not seeing that, if anything we are looking more disjointed, more laboured and even less interested in moving the ball at different speeds during a game. It is CH’s job to figure out why and to fix it.
I’m not saying CH needs to be sacked for us to go forward. I still hope he can move us forward but right now he needs to have a bit of a re-think and decide if he is playing the system to suit him or to suit the players. To me on the outside it feels like he is not taking the lessons from the last games and developing the team. Feels more like this will work attitude and we stick with it and I will prove everyone wrong. I hope it does but I’m struggling with it CH.

He doesn't have the same players though. He doesn't have a LB, Worrall, Soh, Christie, Garner, Grabban (at least fully fit).

Surely we are looking disjointed because we are missing the above?

Christie and garner were never our players. We knew they were going back and therefore should have been prepared and had something in place to replace them... nope all of our eggs in the garner basket so what happens if he doesn’t come back.

Regarding LB we had 4 last season. Allowing 3 to leave without replacement is madness. Can only assume CH didn’t want them. If so he should still keep 2 until we have better.

He didn’t play soh last season so not sure why he would be missing him now. Figs got the nod every time.

Grabban is not as he used to be. Taylor is bang average but that was the case last season. We knew this. We knew we needed a striker but we don’t want to or can’t pay for one.

It’s a lot of excuses for thing we as fans and as a club have known for a long time. Rather than get things done we have left it late and are now struggling.

With the areas we are desperate in cm, st, lb we should be spending money to fill... add loans to the squad after this but these areas are priority.