Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020?

[wassy04]

To add to the wages point, the Carvalho fee gets brought up a lot but that doesn't account for the fact that his salary will be significantly lower than Grosicki say. It will offset a lot of the difference in cost which also offers a big potential resale value.

Admittedly it's not gone to plan but who knows if Karanka had survived and we'd continued to bud our team around him then maybe it would've gone differently

[Derby My Arse]

If we had beaten Charlton we wouldn't even be having this discussion and this thread wouldn't exist. The words over reaction spring to mind. We have beaten both Brentford and Leeds recently you know.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Am I the only one that thinks we had a great summer then? Signed 5 players for minimal fees that play every game. 2 of those are possibly our two most important players

A great summer is pushing it but we are going in the right direction.

We did 8 permanent signings and 4 loans.
Of these 5 perms successful, Samba, silva, Ribeiro, Ameobi, Sow
3 not successful Adomah, Jenkinson , Chema (even if we did get our money back)
All 4 loans less said the better
So a score of 5/12 for me is still could do much better.

It is for reference a huge improvemnt on summer 2018/19
Then we did a whopping 12 permanents and 6 loans
Of those you can only say Grabban, Figueredo, and Dawson successful with Colback the only loanee who did well. I wont count either Carvalho or Robinson as a success but 4/18 is poor

January 2019
2 permanents and 3 loans only. All were rubbish. 0/5

Overall then 9 successes out of 35 permanent and loan signings over last 3 windows. You decide if that is good or not. However as I said we are going in the right direction. Wont comment on January signings but we needed forward options, pacey winger and a left back. On paper we at least attempted to cover all of the above. Lets see how it pans out.

[wassy04]

Am I the only one that thinks we had a great summer then? Signed 5 players for minimal fees that play every game. 2 of those are possibly our two most important players

A great summer is pushing it but we are going in the right direction.

We did 8 permanent signings and 4 loans.
Of these 5 perms successful, Samba, silva, Ribeiro, Ameobi, Sow
3 not successful Adomah, Jenkinson , Chema (even if we did get our money back)
All 4 loans less said the better
So a score of 5/12 for me is still could do much better.

It is for reference a huge improvemnt on summer 2018/19
Then we did a whopping 12 permanents and 6 loans
Of those you can only say Grabban, Figueredo, and Dawson successful with Colback the only loanee who did well. I wont count either Carvalho or Robinson as a success but 4/18 is poor

January 2019
2 permanents and 3 loans only. All were rubbish. 0/5

Overall then 9 successes out of 35 permanent and loan signings over last 3 windows. You decide if that is good or not. However as I said we are going in the right direction. Wont comment on January signings but we needed forward options, pacey winger and a left back. On paper we at least attempted to cover all of the above. Lets see how it pans out.

Yeah but that also doesn't factor in that we made another net profit, probably around 5mil? If the players we signed they were all for low fees good business.

We also didnt sell anyone of importance which is always good. Literally only error for me was not signing another striker. 

I would say given we made a profit on Chema snd he contributed briefly at LB when needed that one is a success. Also we had a success at RB with Cash so Jenkinson one irrelevant (although he does look poor) Even Adomah contributed at the start although I'd call this a fail but then he was a free backup winger.

As for loans, we got 2 keepers and one is good so success. Mir/Bostock have been costly failures but again with Bostock we signed Sow, Bostock, Semedo, Silva. Can only ever play 3 at most no big deal.

Perm signings were overall 5/6 which is excellent

[Jean_claude_killy]

The Club accounts paint a very different picture; wages are clearly heading in the right direction.

You quote that loan players are clogging up the wage bill, they are not.

And we cannot sign the one quality player because they want the quality wage to go with it.

I did a back of the fag packet calculation on what our average wage bill is per player; take out the under 23's and you are left with an average wage of around 17 to 18k per week.

What do you think will happen if you sign a Grosicki on 35k per week?

It drives a wedge in what is a very happy dressing room.

I notice you are now advocating Scott Hogan after his good start for Birmingham; I did not see you mention him when he was absolutely shite for Stoke or Villa.

The guys doing the recruiting do not have the benefit of hindsight like you do.

There is not one single Club out there who are 100% successful with their transfers, not one, and that is because it is not an exact science; come the end of the season we will be in a very good position with our squad and perfectly placed to build.

If loan players aren't clogging up the wage bill, why are you using the wage bill as an excuse for not loaning players like Hogan, Freeman, Robinson etc?

No it doesn't mate, that's a total myth. These players want to play in the Prem and will welcome quality which allows them to do that. You think Grabban's gonna moan he's got Grosicki supplying him as opposed to Ameobi? If we go up, the current players become Prem players, and will get a better wage by default (hell their bonus this year alone will keep them happy.) They really won't moan if additional quality arrives to help them go up.

Regards Hogan, what bizarre comment. I don't scout for the club. 

No-one's expecting us to be 100% successful. I'd just like us to adjust our approach & setup.

Signing loan players mean we do not pay the players wage in its entirety, means we do not pay agent fees and we do not pay signing on fees; in some instances, however, we pay a loan fee - the overall deal means we pay much less in the long run.

The fact that a good number of the loans we have signed have turned out to be duff has undoubtedly hurt us and has gone some way to off setting the great work done when we signed Sow and Samba.

The loan market is a lottery but that is the market we are in and cannot escape it; when EM took over the Club he inherited players like Mancienne, Lichaj, Hobbs, Fox, Vaughan, Assombalonga and Clough who were being paid far more than we could afford, and a hell of a lot more than they deserved.

Wages ran at 140% of Club income and those very well paid players listed did their utmost to get us out of this division; the problem was that we were heading for League 1.

The Club was described as a basket case and of being on life support when the Greeks took over; well thankfully we have moved on from those dark days, hopefully never to return to them; and if that means not paying over inflated wages to moderate players like Grosicki then its fine by me.

You make it sound as if we only have to spend the money and promotion will be automatic; that is not and never has been the case; in fact there was an article in the Athletic which suggested the exact opposite was the case and provided the statistics to back the claim up.

The point I was making about Hogan was that no one in their right mind would go near him after his spells at Villa and Stoke; he was dreadful at both Clubs; if we had attempted to sign him after the form he had displayed you would have not have been too impressed, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Regarding Freeman; when news broke of our attempts to loan him he came out and made it clear that he wanted to stay and fight for his place, surely you are not blaming our recruitment team for that!

[Strawberry Avenger]

It's hard to argue with, Jean.

Before Marinakis took over, Forest were the perfect example of 'how not' to run a football club (out of the excellent Academy.) It had the whiff of a corner shop mentality or trapped in the past.

Turnover for wages was worryingly high and you had players like Mancienne who were simply shocking as a CH. The squad was littered with mediocrity on 'comfortable' contracts. Good for them. Not good for the Club or fans. It was 'misery' on a pitch. It says something that night the team completely bottled it vs Preston that Aitor cleared out ten players and brought in ten players that night. It was emergency brakes time. For me, that signalled the 'good times' for mediocre players on high wages was coming to an end. 3 relegation threatened seasons meant this could not go on. Marinakis came in at the right time and steadied the ship, course corrected the ship, now that ship is headed in the right direction. But Forest are still behind the likes of WBA, Leeds and Fulham...and even Brentford in terms of being consistently well run. The league positions seem to reflect that. So I can't carp too much about our lost opportunities (Birmingham, Charlton and Reading x2. That's ten points right there that Forest bottled or capitulated that sees Forest go top.)

The City Ground itself was rotting. Even Doncaster and Brentford have managed to get new grounds.

The Club was apparently being run in a skeleton staff mode with key positions remaining unappointed when other 'smaller' clubs were over taking Forest in the fast line. Southampton, Burnley, Bournemouth, Wigan, Charlton...there's a big long list of clubs that seemed to do what 'misfit' Forest couldn't.

I'd rather we be a 'well run' club.

We just have to keep our eye on the long term goal. The removal of under performers will probably continue this Summer with another clear out replaced by better overall players. Again, pushing the squad quality higher. Driving wage turnover down but give the squad more bang for the buck.

Playing squad is better overall. '5th.'
Attendances are up. (As a result of on field improvements and cut to ticket prices.)
New Stand and stadium renovation (Relatively imminent.)

Just three years ago we were on life support.

The future's good. 'Good enough.'

Losing to the likes of Charlton could have been avoided. But it's the frustrating price of progress. It will be forgotten when the new Stand goes up.

There's merit in what Jean says. We can't field 2 teams of Sow and Samba and Grabban when they pick up knocks. That's partly due to the past transgressions which Forest are still clearing out as of January and this Summer (still more to go) But there's clear progress in terms of buying and selling (2.5 million for two LBs to bring one in for nothing) to make profit for turnover and bringing in the overall technical skill of the squad up.

Maybe Forest will be better placed to build on this season in the Summer with a (boat load?) of players contracts up. Though I wouldn't rule out eg. Car' or Cash or Worrall being sold to make it so.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Am I the only one that thinks we had a great summer then? Signed 5 players for minimal fees that play every game. 2 of those are possibly our two most important players

It was a decent Summer.  Many clubs would have taken our transfer window.

Sow.  Samba.  

Rib'.  Silva.

Amoebi.

Decent players.  Sow and Samba.  Top class.

Sow?  Talismanic.

Going forwards, Forest should be better placed to supplement the squad/1st team in the Summer with more 'next level' talent as more deadwood or loans are let go.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

How long have the present recruitement team been in place? Just a few months.

Weve been there before with what Alf is crying out for and where did that get us?

We've had British COE's, British Scouts, signed 100's of players with experience of playing in the British Leagues and it got us where exactly?

Agreed.  It will take time to move out the past recruitment clogging up our mediocre player but high wage turnover.

Even when we had the dreaded transfer committee that 'frustrated' BD Mark I...where did it get us.

Forest have been 'dying' in recruitment for the past two decades and the league positions as well as the extended stay outside the Premier reflected this.

Precious few highlights to go into the player of the decade.

Wry smile when we were tussling over Cohen, Reid and Antoni.  No disrespect to those committed and talented players.  But there wasn't a vast choice that shone brightly on Forest's recruitment.

Forest weren't working.  3 successive attempts to get relegated avoided by the grace of the hand of god and the emergency breaks being applied by Marinakis.

So a new footballing structure has been put in place and it seems to complement the work being done by the Academy.

9th.  Now 5th.  The progress is up.  Sure. The signings may not be 'sexy' or 'fashionable' but the league table shows Forest sit '5th.'

We need to give recruitment time (and the Coach too) to remove the crust from the high wage turnover and build on that. And see where we are when the new stand is built.

It may take that extra capacity to give Forest the financial leg room to compete in signing the quality we're after. But clearing out the high wage but mediocre playing staff who aren't contributing or haven't worked out remains a priority given the further exodus of playing staff this Jan'. The current hierarchy seem keen on squeezing out more bang for buck whilst driving costs down and club revenue up.

It's called being 'well run.'

Fig.  Grabban.  Sow.  Samba.  Lolley.  Rib.  Silva.  Amoebi.  These are decent players.

Sure, there will be duffs who don't work out. But we don't have to renew these loans or we'll simply sell a player on.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

The January window.

Bong. Experienced LB who won promotion with Brighton? Out goes 2.5 million worth of LBs who, let's be fair, one wasn't performing and the other was a CH. He's done ok. We can't blame him for the Charlton defeat.
Da Costa. He won't be fully fit. He'll need time and we'll see. If he scores he'll be a hero. (and yes, now he's injured.) Sow was an unknown. We'll have to wait and see.
Walker. If we'd have bought him as an up and coming unknown we'd be raving. Doubts about him being able to score in the Champ'. Guess what? He goes on and scores the winner vs Leeds. Who knew?

LB and two strikers. It's what we wanted.

And yes, we got another winger in who is eager to impress and we'll see how that works out. We'll have more of an idea of the January window when our final league positions is revealed.

But those players were brought in. Under past regimes we'd have gone wanting.

Instead we have experience, technical ability and up and coming youth that can bang the goals in.

None of it sexy. But decent, far better than nothing. Far better than what we had when Forest were trying to get relegated 3 seasons in a row.

SA.

[Jasper Scarrott]

How long have the present recruitement team been in place? Just a few months.

Weve been there before with what Alf is crying out for and where did that get us?

We've had British COE's, British Scouts, signed 100's of players with experience of playing in the British Leagues and it got us where exactly?

Spot on DM.

[Alf]

How long have the present recruitement team been in place? Just a few months.

Weve been there before with what Alf is crying out for and where did that get us?

We've had British COE's, British Scouts, signed 100's of players with experience of playing in the British Leagues and it got us where exactly?

Spot on DM.

Why can't, or shouldn't we, have both?

Surely we should just aim to have THE best recruitment setup we can. 

The current one has just signed a striker for 2m who, before he was injured, wasn't even going to make the bench against WBA.

We need to up our game.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Alf, what is wrong with giving Da Costa a game or two in the under 23's for him to settle in, is that a crime?

If Grabban is fit and we have Walker on the bench then what is the rush to get Da Costa straight into the team at West Brom?

Give the bloke a chance for christ sake, he's only had 20 minutes in a red shirt.