The Premier League

[Paplane]

I couldn't give a damn about Nuno or West Ham.

Me neither. Nuno's a good coach and I enjoyed him being with us but I'm not mourning the loss of the guy as he clearly looks after no1 and doesn't give a S**t about us.

To his credit he found a formula that was successful for 2 thirds of the season but the record shows it fell apart at the end, and we became a team struggling to get wins. That's carried on into this season and Nuno has to bear a lot of the responsibility for that despite his mutterings. It looks to me like EM and Edu realised the the team & approach had to change to enable the club to continue to grow and it looks like Nuno wasn't interested in that agenda. He's got his system, which is sound, and anything beyond that is not for him.

Comfortably beat Brentford, drew with currently 3rd place palace - continuation of poor results? 

Change in approach accepted, I truly hope that call is correct, as we all do. At present it looks like self-harm

For two thirds of the season, Nuno took a team from 17th to 3rd, finishing 7th was still an incredible achievement with few changes to the first team. 

Whilst he has clearly tarnished his legacy with Forest, doesn't diminish the performance last year. 

Surely everyone would've just preferred that Nuno said nothing in the summer and therefore was still in charge?

Exactly, I don't know where this narrative of things needed to change is coming from, it's not just pap tbf.  It's like we finished 16th. It's up there with fluking an entire season. 

Wholly accept that toys out of the pram led to sacking. If it was felt a change of approach was needed then that's fine, big man pays the money to have the right to do that but it's risky when prem going other way (far more pragmatic)

You think we could play the way we did last season and not struggle this? Especially with the loss of Elanga to factor in? We were found out. It was good while it lasted, no it was great while it lasted, but looking back now it was perfectly evident that the defend deep and break at pace approach had run it's course and teams had worked out how to play it.

[DeesideRed]

Me neither. Nuno's a good coach and I enjoyed him being with us but I'm not mourning the loss of the guy as he clearly looks after no1 and doesn't give a S**t about us.

To his credit he found a formula that was successful for 2 thirds of the season but the record shows it fell apart at the end, and we became a team struggling to get wins. That's carried on into this season and Nuno has to bear a lot of the responsibility for that despite his mutterings. It looks to me like EM and Edu realised the the team & approach had to change to enable the club to continue to grow and it looks like Nuno wasn't interested in that agenda. He's got his system, which is sound, and anything beyond that is not for him.

Comfortably beat Brentford, drew with currently 3rd place palace - continuation of poor results? 

Change in approach accepted, I truly hope that call is correct, as we all do. At present it looks like self-harm

For two thirds of the season, Nuno took a team from 17th to 3rd, finishing 7th was still an incredible achievement with few changes to the first team. 

Whilst he has clearly tarnished his legacy with Forest, doesn't diminish the performance last year. 

Surely everyone would've just preferred that Nuno said nothing in the summer and therefore was still in charge?

Exactly, I don't know where this narrative of things needed to change is coming from, it's not just pap tbf.  It's like we finished 16th. It's up there with fluking an entire season. 

Wholly accept that toys out of the pram led to sacking. If it was felt a change of approach was needed then that's fine, big man pays the money to have the right to do that but it's risky when prem going other way (far more pragmatic)

You think we could play the way we did last season and not struggle this? Especially with the loss of Elanga to factor in? We were found out. It was good while it lasted, no it was great while it lasted, but looking back now it was perfectly evident that the defend deep and break at pace approach had run it's course and teams had worked out how to play it.

If that's the case Pap why are we seeing a pragmatic premier league this season? Everyone relying on transitions and set pieces?

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Would point out also that last season success was largely dependent on being able to field a very settled squad and getting our first team out there nearly every game.
We were very fortunate (or possibly it was good skill) with injuries, managing to keep Wood fit and play every game was a miracle in itself which probably cant be repeated. Certainly there was no way we could compete in Europe too so things had to change to some degree.

[Paplane]

Comfortably beat Brentford, drew with currently 3rd place palace - continuation of poor results? 

Change in approach accepted, I truly hope that call is correct, as we all do. At present it looks like self-harm

For two thirds of the season, Nuno took a team from 17th to 3rd, finishing 7th was still an incredible achievement with few changes to the first team. 

Whilst he has clearly tarnished his legacy with Forest, doesn't diminish the performance last year. 

Surely everyone would've just preferred that Nuno said nothing in the summer and therefore was still in charge?

Exactly, I don't know where this narrative of things needed to change is coming from, it's not just pap tbf.  It's like we finished 16th. It's up there with fluking an entire season. 

Wholly accept that toys out of the pram led to sacking. If it was felt a change of approach was needed then that's fine, big man pays the money to have the right to do that but it's risky when prem going other way (far more pragmatic)

You think we could play the way we did last season and not struggle this? Especially with the loss of Elanga to factor in? We were found out. It was good while it lasted, no it was great while it lasted, but looking back now it was perfectly evident that the defend deep and break at pace approach had run it's course and teams had worked out how to play it.

If that's the case Pap why are we seeing a pragmatic premier league this season? Everyone relying on transitions and set pieces?

Because it's become fashionable again to be pragmatic. The difference is that teams are adding this to their existing armoury. It was the only thing we had last season. We/Nuno may have played a big part in changing attitudes, but regardless of whether other teams are going more direct this season, our approach had ultimately become unsuccessful at the end of last. The Chelsea home game was a classic example, they sat back and defended (with relative ease) all our attacking threat, got a goal and won. Everton, Brentford, both came to Nottm and beat us on our own pitch. Already relegated Leicester came and got a draw. They all got results away at a club chasing champions league football.  You have to look back now and say we were a busted flush at the end.

[DeesideRed]

For two thirds of the season, Nuno took a team from 17th to 3rd, finishing 7th was still an incredible achievement with few changes to the first team. 

Whilst he has clearly tarnished his legacy with Forest, doesn't diminish the performance last year. 

Surely everyone would've just preferred that Nuno said nothing in the summer and therefore was still in charge?

Exactly, I don't know where this narrative of things needed to change is coming from, it's not just pap tbf.  It's like we finished 16th. It's up there with fluking an entire season. 

Wholly accept that toys out of the pram led to sacking. If it was felt a change of approach was needed then that's fine, big man pays the money to have the right to do that but it's risky when prem going other way (far more pragmatic)

You think we could play the way we did last season and not struggle this? Especially with the loss of Elanga to factor in? We were found out. It was good while it lasted, no it was great while it lasted, but looking back now it was perfectly evident that the defend deep and break at pace approach had run it's course and teams had worked out how to play it.

If that's the case Pap why are we seeing a pragmatic premier league this season? Everyone relying on transitions and set pieces?

Because it's become fashionable again to be pragmatic. The difference is that teams are adding this to their existing armoury. It was the only thing we had last season. We/Nuno may have played a big part in changing attitudes, but regardless of whether other teams are going more direct this season, our approach had ultimately become unsuccessful at the end of last. The Chelsea home game was a classic example, they sat back and defended (with relative ease) all our attacking threat, got a goal and won. Everton, Brentford, both came to Nottm and beat us on our own pitch. Already relegated Leicester came and got a draw. They all got results away at a club chasing champions league football.  You have to look back now and say we were a busted flush at the end.

But that essentially lets the players off the hook, levels dropped, some pointed to MGW and city links but there is the pressure / expectation, which this team didnt have until the end of the season when all of a sudden CL football was in sight. I accept Everton kind of showed the way but you're argument cant be that it took a league of tactical geniuses 8 months to work out how to play against us?

[wassy04]

Exactly, I don't know where this narrative of things needed to change is coming from, it's not just pap tbf.  It's like we finished 16th. It's up there with fluking an entire season. 

Wholly accept that toys out of the pram led to sacking. If it was felt a change of approach was needed then that's fine, big man pays the money to have the right to do that but it's risky when prem going other way (far more pragmatic)

You think we could play the way we did last season and not struggle this? Especially with the loss of Elanga to factor in? We were found out. It was good while it lasted, no it was great while it lasted, but looking back now it was perfectly evident that the defend deep and break at pace approach had run it's course and teams had worked out how to play it.

If that's the case Pap why are we seeing a pragmatic premier league this season? Everyone relying on transitions and set pieces?

Because it's become fashionable again to be pragmatic. The difference is that teams are adding this to their existing armoury. It was the only thing we had last season. We/Nuno may have played a big part in changing attitudes, but regardless of whether other teams are going more direct this season, our approach had ultimately become unsuccessful at the end of last. The Chelsea home game was a classic example, they sat back and defended (with relative ease) all our attacking threat, got a goal and won. Everton, Brentford, both came to Nottm and beat us on our own pitch. Already relegated Leicester came and got a draw. They all got results away at a club chasing champions league football.  You have to look back now and say we were a busted flush at the end.

But that essentially lets the players off the hook, levels dropped, some pointed to MGW and city links but there is the pressure / expectation, which this team didnt have until the end of the season when all of a sudden CL football was in sight. I accept Everton kind of showed the way but you're argument cant be that it took a league of tactical geniuses 8 months to work out how to play against us?

Exactly, the results the last few months don't negate the rest of the season. Absolutely no reason to think the staff wouldn't have been able to find at least somewhere in the middle particularly with the upgraded squad. Newcastle and Villa had smashing finishes to the season, look at them now. How you finish the previous year doesn't dictate the following season.

There was no justification whatsoever for a sacking on purely footballing terms and we started the season fine in the first two games. If the off field stuff hadn't of happened, the fan base would be pretty much full behind Nuno, even if we regressed back to midtable this year.

[Trailer Park Tom]

People are saying they are enjoying watching forest since ange took over because the style is a revelation and that our previous style was unsustainable because they don't want to admit they were wrong about Nuno  :Funny:

if anyone is saying they are enjoying watching us lose because Ange ball is great to watch they are lying. Simple as. Maybe if you lose 1 game 3-2 or give it a go against Arsenal. Not Swansea, Burnley and Sunderland.

[Paplane]

You think we could play the way we did last season and not struggle this? Especially with the loss of Elanga to factor in? We were found out. It was good while it lasted, no it was great while it lasted, but looking back now it was perfectly evident that the defend deep and break at pace approach had run it's course and teams had worked out how to play it.

If that's the case Pap why are we seeing a pragmatic premier league this season? Everyone relying on transitions and set pieces?

Because it's become fashionable again to be pragmatic. The difference is that teams are adding this to their existing armoury. It was the only thing we had last season. We/Nuno may have played a big part in changing attitudes, but regardless of whether other teams are going more direct this season, our approach had ultimately become unsuccessful at the end of last. The Chelsea home game was a classic example, they sat back and defended (with relative ease) all our attacking threat, got a goal and won. Everton, Brentford, both came to Nottm and beat us on our own pitch. Already relegated Leicester came and got a draw. They all got results away at a club chasing champions league football.  You have to look back now and say we were a busted flush at the end.

But that essentially lets the players off the hook, levels dropped, some pointed to MGW and city links but there is the pressure / expectation, which this team didnt have until the end of the season when all of a sudden CL football was in sight. I accept Everton kind of showed the way but you're argument cant be that it took a league of tactical geniuses 8 months to work out how to play against us?

Exactly, the results the last few months don't negate the rest of the season. Absolutely no reason to think the staff wouldn't have been able to find at least somewhere in the middle particularly with the upgraded squad. Newcastle and Villa had smashing finishes to the season, look at them now. How you finish the previous year doesn't dictate the following season.

There was no justification whatsoever for a sacking on purely footballing terms and we started the season fine in the first two games. If the off field stuff hadn't of happened, the fan base would be pretty much full behind Nuno, even if we regressed back to midtable this year.

I'm not saying that Nuno deserved in any way to be sacked. You're right, the fan base would have been happy with mid table and a run in the Europa. He left because he just couldn't/wouldn't accommodate the change that was required. My guess is that Edu told him he wanted there to be a change in approach on the pitch and a) he took offence to that and b) needed the new players in early to work on the change in style. It's not all on Nuno. The club don't appear to have handled the situation very well at all.

[Paplane]

Exactly, I don't know where this narrative of things needed to change is coming from, it's not just pap tbf.  It's like we finished 16th. It's up there with fluking an entire season. 

Wholly accept that toys out of the pram led to sacking. If it was felt a change of approach was needed then that's fine, big man pays the money to have the right to do that but it's risky when prem going other way (far more pragmatic)

You think we could play the way we did last season and not struggle this? Especially with the loss of Elanga to factor in? We were found out. It was good while it lasted, no it was great while it lasted, but looking back now it was perfectly evident that the defend deep and break at pace approach had run it's course and teams had worked out how to play it.

If that's the case Pap why are we seeing a pragmatic premier league this season? Everyone relying on transitions and set pieces?

Because it's become fashionable again to be pragmatic. The difference is that teams are adding this to their existing armoury. It was the only thing we had last season. We/Nuno may have played a big part in changing attitudes, but regardless of whether other teams are going more direct this season, our approach had ultimately become unsuccessful at the end of last. The Chelsea home game was a classic example, they sat back and defended (with relative ease) all our attacking threat, got a goal and won. Everton, Brentford, both came to Nottm and beat us on our own pitch. Already relegated Leicester came and got a draw. They all got results away at a club chasing champions league football.  You have to look back now and say we were a busted flush at the end.

But that essentially lets the players off the hook, levels dropped, some pointed to MGW and city links but there is the pressure / expectation, which this team didnt have until the end of the season when all of a sudden CL football was in sight. I accept Everton kind of showed the way but you're argument cant be that it took a league of tactical geniuses 8 months to work out how to play against us?

The players gave absolutely everything they could. It was a magnificent effort.
The season dropped off because of: 
1. Being (eventually) worked out by opposition
2. Player fatigue
3. Player pressure

in that order. IMO.

[DeesideRed]

You think we could play the way we did last season and not struggle this? Especially with the loss of Elanga to factor in? We were found out. It was good while it lasted, no it was great while it lasted, but looking back now it was perfectly evident that the defend deep and break at pace approach had run it's course and teams had worked out how to play it.

If that's the case Pap why are we seeing a pragmatic premier league this season? Everyone relying on transitions and set pieces?

Because it's become fashionable again to be pragmatic. The difference is that teams are adding this to their existing armoury. It was the only thing we had last season. We/Nuno may have played a big part in changing attitudes, but regardless of whether other teams are going more direct this season, our approach had ultimately become unsuccessful at the end of last. The Chelsea home game was a classic example, they sat back and defended (with relative ease) all our attacking threat, got a goal and won. Everton, Brentford, both came to Nottm and beat us on our own pitch. Already relegated Leicester came and got a draw. They all got results away at a club chasing champions league football.  You have to look back now and say we were a busted flush at the end.

But that essentially lets the players off the hook, levels dropped, some pointed to MGW and city links but there is the pressure / expectation, which this team didnt have until the end of the season when all of a sudden CL football was in sight. I accept Everton kind of showed the way but you're argument cant be that it took a league of tactical geniuses 8 months to work out how to play against us?

Exactly, the results the last few months don't negate the rest of the season. Absolutely no reason to think the staff wouldn't have been able to find at least somewhere in the middle particularly with the upgraded squad. Newcastle and Villa had smashing finishes to the season, look at them now. How you finish the previous year doesn't dictate the following season.

There was no justification whatsoever for a sacking on purely footballing terms and we started the season fine in the first two games. If the off field stuff hadn't of happened, the fan base would be pretty much full behind Nuno, even if we regressed back to midtable this year.

This is where i'm at really. The issue was off the field, not on it.

It was clear there was differences in opinion for the upcoming season, not unlike our first season where we stuck with the manager and the recruitment team lost their jobs. This time, perhaps as Nuno didnt have the stock in the eyes of EM, the manager copped it. (Albeit he certainly made the decision straightforward post Palace).

[Reds73]

If that's the case Pap why are we seeing a pragmatic premier league this season? Everyone relying on transitions and set pieces?

Because it's become fashionable again to be pragmatic. The difference is that teams are adding this to their existing armoury. It was the only thing we had last season. We/Nuno may have played a big part in changing attitudes, but regardless of whether other teams are going more direct this season, our approach had ultimately become unsuccessful at the end of last. The Chelsea home game was a classic example, they sat back and defended (with relative ease) all our attacking threat, got a goal and won. Everton, Brentford, both came to Nottm and beat us on our own pitch. Already relegated Leicester came and got a draw. They all got results away at a club chasing champions league football.  You have to look back now and say we were a busted flush at the end.

But that essentially lets the players off the hook, levels dropped, some pointed to MGW and city links but there is the pressure / expectation, which this team didnt have until the end of the season when all of a sudden CL football was in sight. I accept Everton kind of showed the way but you're argument cant be that it took a league of tactical geniuses 8 months to work out how to play against us?

Exactly, the results the last few months don't negate the rest of the season. Absolutely no reason to think the staff wouldn't have been able to find at least somewhere in the middle particularly with the upgraded squad. Newcastle and Villa had smashing finishes to the season, look at them now. How you finish the previous year doesn't dictate the following season.

There was no justification whatsoever for a sacking on purely footballing terms and we started the season fine in the first two games. If the off field stuff hadn't of happened, the fan base would be pretty much full behind Nuno, even if we regressed back to midtable this year.

This is where i'm at really. The issue was off the field, not on it.

It was clear there was differences in opinion for the upcoming season, not unlike our first season where we stuck with the manager and the recruitment team lost their jobs. This time, perhaps as Nuno didnt have the stock in the eyes of EM, the manager copped it. (Albeit he certainly made the decision straightforward post Palace).

De Zerbi had the same fall out at Brighton with Tony Bloom. He wanted them to sign established, oven baked Prem players, and Bloom refused to step away from what has made them successful.

Because of the short tenure coaches have these days, they cannot be demanding certain players, and certainly players that don’t meet the profile of the path the club wants to take.

I honestly don’t think any manager can complain with the squad they have to work with. Its stacked with talent

[DeesideRed]

Watching Leeds game, first time I've seen them, certainly no mugs. This is not the year the promoted sides go down with a whimper