Is Vrentzos The New Mark Arthur, Should We Question Him?

[Sabricadabra]

I don't back him without reservation SM, it's not that. I found DT's comments strange and if you read back there were lots of holes in what he said a few days ago. Also these latest comments today about Diahkaby. If Vrentzos signed Diahkaby against Lamouchi's wishes then how come Lamouchi kept picking him? It doesn't make sense. I am not defending Vrentzos, I know he's not perfect and I know that some Olympiakos fans don't like him either. DT's comments are helping nobody in my opinion and we shouldn't be doing the dirty laundry in public although i know that many will not agree with that.
No good will come from DT's comments. People should be careful what they wish for. If EM feels that the fans are turning he could very easily sell to a bunch of Chinese crooks or something.
What is DT trying to prove and more importantly what is he trying to acheive with all his muck raking. It won't go down well with Vrentzos and more importantly it won't go down well with EM.

Muck raking sums it up. It’s merely gossip designed to sell himself and the Athletic. We don’t know Vrentzos or EM’s, or even Sabri’s side of the story, so it’s pure gossip which achieves little other than fanning the flames of anger towards the owners and fuels even more conspiracy theories.

Even if it’s all 100% true, so what? It’s EM’s club and he runs it how he wants. Managers/coaches don’t have to come and work here, yet we don’t seem to have a problem attracting the very best available for a club of our size.

[ozzyten10]

I’m not sure writing about nffc is going to sell more subscriptions to the athletic. It’s obvious all is not rosy.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Not saying it does but we only ever here one side of the story. I am sure Vrentzos version of events would be very different. People hanging on every word that DT says but he obviously has a personal beef with vrentzos. Two sides of every story...

As Sabri was first team coach he got told who to pick and play

Is that actually 100% stonewall true or is that what you want to believe?
Be honest...If you say it's 100% stonewall true then I want the evidence.

[ThePromisedLand]

This feels like a road that we’ve been down before.
If we’d celebrated a victory last night I suspect this debate wouldn’t be taking place.
Two quite opposite camps here - suggest we agree to disagree.

[Sabricadabra]

I’m not sure writing about nffc is going to sell more subscriptions to the athletic. It’s obvious all is not rosy.

Chris Hughton wouldn’t risk his reputation by coming to a club with problems behind the scenes. He said himself he had plenty of offers but waited for the right opportunity.

I’m not interested in how DT thinks the club should be run. That’s his opinion. I also have an opinion about how he should do his job, but I doubt he’d be interested either. He has no experience whatsoever in club ownership, or club management. Leave it to the people who know what they’re doing. The people who’ve improved our league position every season since taking over. That is evidence and fact rather than gossip and tittle tattle.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Ozzy what is not Rosy? I don't see loads of people clamouring to leave the club. Actually I see the opposite.
Just because DT doesn't agree with some things that Vrentzos has supposedly done?
Plus like Sabricadabra said above Hughton didn't have to think twice about joining us.
All looks very Rosy from where I am sitting.

[Tricky]

There is more to the Diakaby saga than meets the eye. This is not a slur on Vrentzos, EM or Sabri, just an outsiders opinion.

It seems mighty odd that Sabri recalled Tyler Walker from a very successful loan at Lincoln City and just a few days later Diakabi turns up, then Da Costa. 

From my opinion, what was the point in bringing Tyler back if there was no use for him? Tyler did score though, Diakabi didn't. Da Costa went one better and scored in his own net!!!!!!

I do think Sabri was forced to play Diakabi. Now whether that was down to the clubs contractual obligation with Huddersfield or from a direction from higher up the club, I would not like say for definite, but I just do not see Sabri over looking an academy product, who has scored goals at this level previously, in favour of a player whose performances were shocking from the first game to the last, without some sort of higher up influence. So in that respect Dan Taylor may have a valid point, but he needs to get the correct information with proof, in order to make his theories, information, criticisms, suspicions, whatever valid.

Now we come on to the Head Coach/Manager debate. Sabri was Head Coach, not Manager. It is therefore my opinion that, whether we like it or not, Sabri has to do what he is told by his Managers, be it Head of Recruitment, the CEO, Director of Football or the clubs owner. He would also be contractually silenced into giving out any untoward information to the press about influences into the playing staff from those higher up the food chain. But he did let one or two comments slip out that never really made any sense regarding certain players at the time. Clearly he should not have made those comments, but if he was put under pressure to play certain players, against his better judgement, then his frustration would be understandable and things may have been said or implied that wouldn't have been said under normal circumstances.

For me though, none of this is as important as to why the side imploded after the restart last season. We, as fans have defended the Head Coach and the owners to the hilt, but we still have no idea what the f**k happened in those last 9 games. Was this something that was simmering over from before lockdown and escalated afterwards? What was it? Why was it allowed to continue? Who was to blame? Why has it seemingly continued into this season? These are questions we, as supporters of this club, are want to know. This is why debates such as Vrentzos/Daniel Taylor keep emerging on this site. It is not to destabilise the club in any way. It is not a witch hunt going after Vrentzos or Marinakis, it is not a support campaign for Daniel Taylor. It is a need to find out the truth about why we have fallen from grace so drastically in the space of only a few short months.

Regardless of what happened, who was responsible, why it happened etc, if lessons haven't been learnt by it and the same things keep re-occurring, then two things are guaranteed to happen. 1. We will lose the best manager we have had at this club since Billy Davies pt1 and 2. We will continue to be a mid-table side flitting with relegation from time to time and will not foresee our ambitions to become a club challenging for a place in the Premier League any time soon.

At the end of the day, it boils down to what all Forest fans agree is shit communication coming out of the club. Dan Taylor is trying to get information to pass on to the fans. He will know that if he publishes anything not true, he may be sued for libel. 

I think it is fair to say that the fans are entitled to know what is going on at the club. Many of them invest £000's of their hard earned money on the club. It is totally unacceptable that despite all of that money being handed over to the club, they do not have the decency to at least come out and explain WTF went wrong.

I will now go back to no longer commenting on this matter as I have given my opinions on it.

[wassy04]

I don't back him without reservation SM, it's not that. I found DT's comments strange and if you read back there were lots of holes in what he said a few days ago. Also these latest comments today about Diahkaby. If Vrentzos signed Diahkaby against Lamouchi's wishes then how come Lamouchi kept picking him? It doesn't make sense. I am not defending Vrentzos, I know he's not perfect and I know that some Olympiakos fans don't like him either. DT's comments are helping nobody in my opinion and we shouldn't be doing the dirty laundry in public although i know that many will not agree with that.
No good will come from DT's comments. People should be careful what they wish for. If EM feels that the fans are turning he could very easily sell to a bunch of Chinese crooks or something.
What is DT trying to prove and more importantly what is he trying to acheive with all his muck raking. It won't go down well with Vrentzos and more importantly it won't go down well with EM.

Muck raking sums it up. It’s merely gossip designed to sell himself and the Athletic. We don’t know Vrentzos or EM’s, or even Sabri’s side of the story, so it’s pure gossip which achieves little other than fanning the flames of anger towards the owners and fuels even more conspiracy theories.

Even if it’s all 100% true, so what? It’s EM’s club and he runs it how he wants. Managers/coaches don’t have to come and work here, yet we don’t seem to have a problem attracting the very best available for a club of our size.

They could easily put out their own versions, without a denial why would you believe anything else. 

I wanted to take issue with one comment "Even if it’s all 100% true, so what? It’s EM’s club and he runs it how he wants" just because he owns the club doesn't mean we should let him do what he wants carte blanche. I'm not saying whether anything wrong has been done but I'd want to know that DT or whoever was there if things got worse and we needed to know about it. 

Surely we've all seen why this is necessary with Fawaz. Or were you saying "its Fawaz club he can run it how he wants"?

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

I am not being funny here but I know these fellas and i know how they work. None of this is helping our club one bit. They don't bow to anyone, they will not issue some denial, why should they? They don't have to explain their decisions and they won't.
I know some won't like that but that's how it is so we need to get used to it.
DT is playing a dangerous game. I hope he knows what he's doing.
I am done with this subject now. I find it uncomfortable.

[ThePromisedLand]

One point from me:

Yes they should explain themselves.
They are purely the current owners.
It is - and will always be - our club.

[Tricky]

I am not being funny here but I know these fellas and i know how they work. None of this is helping our club one bit. They don't bow to anyone, they will not issue some denial, why should they? They don't have to explain their decisions and they won't.
I know some won't like that but that's how it is so we need to get used to it.
DT is playing a dangerous game. I hope he knows what he's doing.
I am done with this subject now. I find it uncomfortable.

I have PM'ed you mate

[Sabricadabra]

I don't back him without reservation SM, it's not that. I found DT's comments strange and if you read back there were lots of holes in what he said a few days ago. Also these latest comments today about Diahkaby. If Vrentzos signed Diahkaby against Lamouchi's wishes then how come Lamouchi kept picking him? It doesn't make sense. I am not defending Vrentzos, I know he's not perfect and I know that some Olympiakos fans don't like him either. DT's comments are helping nobody in my opinion and we shouldn't be doing the dirty laundry in public although i know that many will not agree with that.
No good will come from DT's comments. People should be careful what they wish for. If EM feels that the fans are turning he could very easily sell to a bunch of Chinese crooks or something.
What is DT trying to prove and more importantly what is he trying to acheive with all his muck raking. It won't go down well with Vrentzos and more importantly it won't go down well with EM.

Muck raking sums it up. It’s merely gossip designed to sell himself and the Athletic. We don’t know Vrentzos or EM’s, or even Sabri’s side of the story, so it’s pure gossip which achieves little other than fanning the flames of anger towards the owners and fuels even more conspiracy theories.

Even if it’s all 100% true, so what? It’s EM’s club and he runs it how he wants. Managers/coaches don’t have to come and work here, yet we don’t seem to have a problem attracting the very best available for a club of our size.

They could easily put out their own versions, without a denial why would you believe anything else. 

I wanted to take issue with one comment "Even if it’s all 100% true, so what? It’s EM’s club and he runs it how he wants" just because he owns the club doesn't mean we should let him do what he wants carte blanche. I'm not saying whether anything wrong has been done but I'd want to know that DT or whoever was there if things got worse and we needed to know about it. 

Surely we've all seen why this is necessary with Fawaz. Or were you saying "its Fawaz club he can run it how he wants"?

I’m not saying they should have carte blanche. I’m saying the club is doing well so I don’t really care if the last coach was told who to pick or if they are moving players between Oly and Forest to balance the books. They know how to run football clubs so let them get on with it. I trust them to make it work far more than I trust an egotistical journalist who thinks he knows better than them and wants to try and micro manage everything that happens at nffc.

Fawaz was disgracing the club in public with financial mismanagement, failure to comply with EFL regulations and transfer embargoes. Completely different.