Dyche In/Out

[BadDog]

The coaching is some of the worst I've ever seen at Forest, last night embarrassed me with the squad we have.

We have players low on confidence and yet the managers job is to build that and he's making it worse.

They are out of there depth, Edu signings or not the players we have should be coached and they aren't.

Really don't want 4 managers in a season that's mental but Dyche probably takes us down I feel.

[BadDog]

I don't mind if Dyche goes or not but if he does then EM should walk.

Yea then we will be in the S**t.

[wassy04]

The coaching is some of the worst I've ever seen at Forest, last night embarrassed me with the squad we have.

We have players low on confidence and yet the managers job is to build that and he's making it worse.

They are out of there depth, Edu signings or not the players we have should be coached and they aren't.

Really don't want 4 managers in a season that's mental but Dyche probably takes us down I feel.

Do you think a caretaker manager or some out of work manager willing to take a short term contract is more likely to keep us up?

[BadDog]

The coaching is some of the worst I've ever seen at Forest, last night embarrassed me with the squad we have.

We have players low on confidence and yet the managers job is to build that and he's making it worse.

They are out of there depth, Edu signings or not the players we have should be coached and they aren't.

Really don't want 4 managers in a season that's mental but Dyche probably takes us down I feel.

Do you think a caretaker manager or some out of work manager willing to take a short term contract is more likely to keep us up?

I really don't know at this point 4 managers in season we probably deserve to go down don't we?

That's mismanagement on all levels.

[Paplane]

Our problems started the day Edu walked through the door. Everything leads to that point.

[Deeler16]

Sort of a brain dump of what I think.

For me it has been the lack of any type of strategy this season which has cost us.

We bought players without planning out our strengths and weaknesses, identifying what systems and styles we wanted to play and nor did we look at pathways to implement and/or change these.

We bought a mishmash of younger players who haven’t played in similar styles and expected them to guide the team to a new identity, yet we didn’t even know what the new identity would be. We didn’t research the players, what is their personality, work ethic and how they fit into a new look system. Examples are strikers we bought two supporting strikers who don’t play as a lone striker. We also bought wingers who are inexperienced and don’t like to run with the ball, they want a slow build up.

These types don’t fit nuno’s, ange’s or dyce’s normal style model, they don’t even fit in with our counter attacking system from last year. So why bring them in if not for a longer term view, in which case we needed some players who could cover the now and allow for a transition period.

Also for reasons like waiting to see what European league we were going to be and the need to increase squad size we bought in a big number of new recruits but we did it late in the window so bonding the team and laying the foundation for the season wasn’t available. All training / fitness is now being done on the very limited times between games. Coaching and development of players is at it hardest as it is all about preparing for the next game over the basics.

Now for the managers unfortunately for us we happened to have 3 managers who have completely different styles, formations and patterns with only nuno’s really suiting the players from the last season, but even that was failing at the end of the season. None of these managers are a look at what we have and then work out how we need to play to get the best out of them and for the club. They all came with this is how I play and you need to fit that even if you can’t/don’t understand it. None of them are willing to make tweaks to their belief, little things that allow players to grow into the managers preferred way of playing. This has created a situation where the team ethos isn’t there and it seems each player is playing their own role and rules. This is why we see panic, fear and disorganisation on the pitch.

All these things need to be addressed so sacking the manager won’t change things this season, it might allow the right person more time to assess the squad but as for performances I don’t see this having an impact on them. What needs to happen is that the club need to  work out what it is we want to become and take in consideration who we are going to lose and what impact that has on long term planning.

The fact we are going to lose some very important players next season means short term our future aims are not going to be possible and may take 5 years to recover from this season. So the steps that need to be taken on the short term need to be listed and dealt with correctly and swiftly. Milestones of multiple steps need to be build up to correct the course of this season, what they are I wish I could tell you but I’m not involved and I can’t see what I can’t see. I would suggest it is worth having a no blame period where people stop hiding things and agendas and come forward with no fear of reprisal to discuss things out in the open and to all. Proper lines of communication roles and responsibilities is a must, especially if we want a manager or a head coach.

Then find the right manager and review the playing staff who will be with us, which players are fit for now, which players have the ability to adapt, which ones need the most help and who isn’t part of the plan going forward. Reviews must be done as to why we bought most of these players and how we don’t repeat the same mistakes. The manager also needs to come with plans on how he will change it, risks, opportunities, successes and failures.

Then we are going to have suffer for a while it all takes shape over a period of time. There will be no short cuts and it will take many transfer windows and youth development years before a new identity is formed with style of play, patterns formations and ethos right through the club. Keep to the long term plan and don’t rush and react recklessly to unexpected spikes along the way. Proactive instead of reactive tracking the milestones, reviewing and revising plans all with long term goals with everybody on board rather than those looking to make a quick name for themselves or hiding information.

Great write up and I agree - whether the club, ownership and fans have the ability to be patient.  Our angst at the moment is justified.  Don't think anyone here was thinking we should be challenging the top places (last year was a blip) and I think many of us on here and X totally understood that it was a blip. Our expectations were to simply establish at a mid table team before any visions above our station.  But we know that there is a drive from EM to push upwards - which is commendable and required but slow and steady builds solid foundations rather than on sand.  We need to be adding two or three first team ready players to improve the squad but we are pretty much signing a new second XI every summer.  You can't integrate that level of churn without an amazing man manager and a full preseason.  Hence my view is that a lot of players we're thinking of casting aside could do with another season with us.  There will be new mgmt - whether we survive in the EPL or not. We need someone in as soon as the season finishes - there are plenty of managers out of contract in the summer.  Question is whether we stick with Dyche if we go down as "he knows the EFL and how to get teams promoted".   

Now this summer is likely to see another churn with needing to replace potentially Ando, Murillo and MGW.  Three core players - IF we stay up, we're likely to see a large chunk of money coming in.  We cannot afford to waste that money again this summer.  However, given our churn over the years, we will probably repeat the mistakes again.

[stirred]

No question do I want Dyche gone. Of course, he’s not up to the task. The issue is getting someone to take over. Remember we got Dyche after sacking Ange without a good option ready.

And I have nothing against him personally, I really wanted it to work with the connections and Stine and Woan, but it’s diabolical. Wolves was the big wake up call for me due to the clueless performance even though we scraped the win, and it’s got worse.

[Woan]

Sort of a brain dump of what I think.

For me it has been the lack of any type of strategy this season which has cost us.

We bought players without planning out our strengths and weaknesses, identifying what systems and styles we wanted to play and nor did we look at pathways to implement and/or change these.

We bought a mishmash of younger players who haven’t played in similar styles and expected them to guide the team to a new identity, yet we didn’t even know what the new identity would be. We didn’t research the players, what is their personality, work ethic and how they fit into a new look system. Examples are strikers we bought two supporting strikers who don’t play as a lone striker. We also bought wingers who are inexperienced and don’t like to run with the ball, they want a slow build up.

These types don’t fit nuno’s, ange’s or dyce’s normal style model, they don’t even fit in with our counter attacking system from last year. So why bring them in if not for a longer term view, in which case we needed some players who could cover the now and allow for a transition period.

Also for reasons like waiting to see what European league we were going to be and the need to increase squad size we bought in a big number of new recruits but we did it late in the window so bonding the team and laying the foundation for the season wasn’t available. All training / fitness is now being done on the very limited times between games. Coaching and development of players is at it hardest as it is all about preparing for the next game over the basics.

Now for the managers unfortunately for us we happened to have 3 managers who have completely different styles, formations and patterns with only nuno’s really suiting the players from the last season, but even that was failing at the end of the season. None of these managers are a look at what we have and then work out how we need to play to get the best out of them and for the club. They all came with this is how I play and you need to fit that even if you can’t/don’t understand it. None of them are willing to make tweaks to their belief, little things that allow players to grow into the managers preferred way of playing. This has created a situation where the team ethos isn’t there and it seems each player is playing their own role and rules. This is why we see panic, fear and disorganisation on the pitch.

All these things need to be addressed so sacking the manager won’t change things this season, it might allow the right person more time to assess the squad but as for performances I don’t see this having an impact on them. What needs to happen is that the club need to  work out what it is we want to become and take in consideration who we are going to lose and what impact that has on long term planning.

The fact we are going to lose some very important players next season means short term our future aims are not going to be possible and may take 5 years to recover from this season. So the steps that need to be taken on the short term need to be listed and dealt with correctly and swiftly. Milestones of multiple steps need to be build up to correct the course of this season, what they are I wish I could tell you but I’m not involved and I can’t see what I can’t see. I would suggest it is worth having a no blame period where people stop hiding things and agendas and come forward with no fear of reprisal to discuss things out in the open and to all. Proper lines of communication roles and responsibilities is a must, especially if we want a manager or a head coach.

Then find the right manager and review the playing staff who will be with us, which players are fit for now, which players have the ability to adapt, which ones need the most help and who isn’t part of the plan going forward. Reviews must be done as to why we bought most of these players and how we don’t repeat the same mistakes. The manager also needs to come with plans on how he will change it, risks, opportunities, successes and failures.

Then we are going to have suffer for a while it all takes shape over a period of time. There will be no short cuts and it will take many transfer windows and youth development years before a new identity is formed with style of play, patterns formations and ethos right through the club. Keep to the long term plan and don’t rush and react recklessly to unexpected spikes along the way. Proactive instead of reactive tracking the milestones, reviewing and revising plans all with long term goals with everybody on board rather than those looking to make a quick name for themselves or hiding information.

Great post. 
I am very concerned about our lack of a coherent transfer strategy. Replacing most of a team every other year is not sustainable financially or in playing style. Trying to keep agents happy is also something we need to avoid if indeed it has been happenng. Our efforts toward team building need to be much more focused. 
I always look forward to your posts. Keep them coming.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Our problems started the day Edu walked through the door. Everything leads to that point.

They started after Leicester at home last season Pap which was a long time before Edu walked through the door.

Ange and Dyche were not Edu's choices either dedpite what some want to believe and some have reported.

Was that performance last night Edu's fault?

[The reds]

Our problems started the day Edu walked through the door. Everything leads to that point.

They started after Leicester at home last season Pap which was a long time before Edu walked through the door.

Ange and Dyche were not Edu's choices either dedpite what some want to believe and some have reported.

Was that performance last night Edu's fault?

I doubt it was Syrianos or Marinakis either. Likely one of the pathetic board we have. Jonny Owen. Nicholas Randall.

[Sausage Roll]

Our problems started the day Edu walked through the door. Everything leads to that point.

Edu is a convenient scapegoat but as SM has (correctly) said it's not all down to him.

And why did Nuno take such umbrage to him being brought in? It's not like it was done cloak and dagger - his arrival was being reported for months before it was confirmed.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

I won’t quote the post yet again but McForest that was a fantastic write up.