Nottingham Forest - Aston Villa

[wassy04]

We shouldn't go into the game expecting to lose either Wassy, it works both ways.

We need to start matching the ambitions of our owner if we are to progress not go into games with the attitude that we have lost before we even kick off. I just can't get my head around that kind of thinking at all.

I don't expect to lose, I expect it to be close with all three results in play.

This is where I fundamentally disagree, you're acting like we're the players. Yes the players should of course have that attitude and should be expecting to be able to win practically any game.

However, as fans it's completely different, if you expect to win a game unrealistically then I'm sure you can see how that can translate to the team. Imagine two scenarios, the fans expect to win tomorrow, with the score at 0-0 there is constant nerves and pressure, even if we took the lead there would be an air of complacency, certainly not an initimidating atmosphere. Alternatively, you go into the game as a fanbase expecting a close game, if we go behind, there is no anger, just support to try and get back into it. The attitude is fundamentally different and therefore the atmosphere is too. That's how we get atmosphere's like the ones we had last year vs Liverpool, Brighton, Arsenal etc. As opposed to how it was vs Fulham, Bournemouth, Everton. I just don't see any benefit as fans of having false expectations as the odds are they will not be met and you'll be left with frustration and disappointment?

[Salvatore Matrecano]

This time last year Villa were in the same position as we currently find ourselves (flirting with the bottom six) look at them now. Changed the manager with a totally different of approach to playing the game while using basically the same players/squad, food for thought?

Reality check time for you and some others.

This is Villa’s 4th year in the PL since promotion, it is Forests 2nd.
In that time Villa’s league positions have been 17th, 11th, 14th and currently 5th.

Villa have spent a similar amount to ourselves year on year, Forest are not the only club with an owner who has big ambitions. They are owned by a billionaire consortium who stated they wanted the club to compete in Europe inside of 5 years much like ourselves.
Their current squad value is £630m up from £500m last season, they also spent big in the summer. Their squad value has them in 8th place.
Forest squad value is £395m which is 11th place.

Therefore Villa are currently over achieving. They under achieved last season when they had a limited manager. Forest are slightly under achieving, we currently have an excellent manager in my opinion. A finish somewhere between 10th and 14th place this season I would see as excellent progress.

We should of course aim to be where Villa are now within a couple of years but to claim we should already be there is deluded. The narrative about a better manager having us further on is becoming tiresome. Form fluctuates, look at the end of the season. Emery is currently doing well but has been a manager for 18 years. He was sacked from Arsenal for poor results. Cooper has improved year on year in each season of his career. He is still learning and isn’t at Emery’s level yet in my opinion but he has the potential to get there. How about we as fans support him to do so rather than calling for his head at the slightest set back.

Didn't Villa finish 7th last year, hence the Euro campaign?

Correct. I missed a year out, will amend. This is their 5th year since promotion.
But apparently according to some we should already be better than them.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

SM you have a habit of misquoting people.

Nobody has said we should be better than them.

What some are saying is that we should be looking at this match against Aston Villa at home and thinking you know what lads we can get something from this match. We are in the PL too and we are there on merit, why are people so afraid? It's Aston Villa for gods sake. Lets not big them up to be Man City, Real Madrid or Bayern.

[wassy04]

SM you have a habit of misquoting people.

Nobody has said we should be better than them.

What some are saying is that we should be looking at this match against Aston Villa at home and thinking you know what lads we can get something from this match. We are in the PL too and we are there on merit, why are people so afraid? It's Aston Villa for gods sake. Lets not big them up to be Man City, Real Madrid or Bayern.

JWJW " Based on their away form.....this should be a win, and must be a win. If we dont beat times like Villa when we are at home, we are not a mid table team."

Word for word quote of someone that thinks we should be better than them.

Lets not big us up to be Aston Villa, Brighton or Brentford because we're not!

[Salvatore Matrecano]

SM you have a habit of misquoting people.

Nobody has said we should be better than them.

What some are saying is that we should be looking at this match against Aston Villa at home and thinking you know what lads we can get something from this match. We are in the PL too and we are there on merit, why are people so afraid? It's Aston Villa for gods sake. Lets not big them up to be Man City, Real Madrid or Bayern.

Read the thread again Im not misquoting. There are people saying this is a must win game and that they expect us to win. Not only win but to do so with exciting attacking football.
In my opinion this is unrealistic considering where we are, particularly given the current injuries.

I have said that we should be competitive it is possible to win with the right mindset and gameplan, importantly with the crowd behind the team which in all honesty they have not been so far.

Nobody has said they are afraid of anyone. Nobody has said we cannot win.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

So one person, great.

Last week I saw a load of shit Greek team players (that is what some like to call them) play West Ham.

Instead of bigging West Ham up the little shit Greek team instead bigged themselves up and they went out onto the field and destroyed them. No doubt you and some others will be telling us how great West Ham are when we go there next week.

So glad you are not our manager Wassy because you would have us beaten before we get out of the changing room every week.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

SM you have a habit of misquoting people.

Nobody has said we should be better than them.

What some are saying is that we should be looking at this match against Aston Villa at home and thinking you know what lads we can get something from this match. We are in the PL too and we are there on merit, why are people so afraid? It's Aston Villa for gods sake. Lets not big them up to be Man City, Real Madrid or Bayern.

JWJW " Based on their away form.....this should be a win, and must be a win. If we dont beat times like Villa when we are at home, we are not a mid table team."

Word for word quote of someone that thinks we should be better than them.

Lets not big us up to be Aston Villa, Brighton or Brentford because we're not!

Where I slightly disagree Wassy and I think what annoys Sniffer somewhat is the assertion that we cant compete with these 3 teams. You have picked 3 teams which have all been exceptionally well run in recent times and are all punching above their weight but we can aspire to match them ourselves.
We can and should aim to be as good as Villa and Brighton, certainly better than Brentford but it will take some time.

[wassy04]

SM you have a habit of misquoting people.

Nobody has said we should be better than them.

What some are saying is that we should be looking at this match against Aston Villa at home and thinking you know what lads we can get something from this match. We are in the PL too and we are there on merit, why are people so afraid? It's Aston Villa for gods sake. Lets not big them up to be Man City, Real Madrid or Bayern.

JWJW " Based on their away form.....this should be a win, and must be a win. If we dont beat times like Villa when we are at home, we are not a mid table team."

Word for word quote of someone that thinks we should be better than them.

Lets not big us up to be Aston Villa, Brighton or Brentford because we're not!

Where I slightly disagree Wassy and I think what annoys Sniffer somewhat is the assertion that we cant compete with these 3 teams. You have picked 3 teams which have all been exceptionally well run in recent times and are all punching above their weight but we can aspire to match them ourselves.
We can and should aim to be as good as Villa and Brighton, certainly better than Brentford but it will take some time.

Yes my point was simply we're not them right now so we shouldn't expect more than we are, ideally we become them but we're not there right now.

[wassy04]

So one person, great.

Last week I saw a load of S**t Greek team players (that is what some like to call them) play West Ham.

Instead of bigging West Ham up the little S**t Greek team instead bigged themselves up and they went out onto the field and destroyed them. No doubt you and some others will be telling us how great West Ham are when we go there next week.

So glad you are not our manager Wassy because you would have us beaten before we get out of the changing room every week.

Ha cheers for that, you know you're not our manager either right? Because you're acting as if what we're saying is being broadcast to the players, which it obviously isn't.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

So one person, great.

Last week I saw a load of S**t Greek team players (that is what some like to call them) play West Ham.

Instead of bigging West Ham up the little S**t Greek team instead bigged themselves up and they went out onto the field and destroyed them. No doubt you and some others will be telling us how great West Ham are when we go there next week.

So glad you are not our manager Wassy because you would have us beaten before we get out of the changing room every week.

Ha cheers for that, you know you're not our manager either right? Because you're acting as if what we're saying is being broadcast to the players, which it obviously isn't.

Thank God for that.

[Tricky]

For f***s sake guys! What is wrong with you all?

Football conversation for fans is all about opinion. Very rarely is it based on actual fact.

Just because you do not buy in to another persons opinion, this does not make them wrong. It doesn't make them right either! It is an individuals thought process only and nothing else. It doesn't make you right or wrong either!

For what its worth, I am HOPING we beat Villa on Sunday, but realistically, I am EXPECTING us to get beat. Thats my opinion. It is neither right or wrong. It is just what I am thinking/feeling about this match.

Why am I expecting us to get beat? Villa are on a good run of form at present. They play a very exciting attacking style of play and are not afraid to run directly through midfield. We have proven we cannot deal with direct play. We may have Awoniyi back, but will he start? Will he last 60 minutes? Whatever, happens, without Awoniyi, we do not have any strikers available. We are still bedding in new players into the side. Yes we are on match 11, but that doesnt mean the squad should now be gelled and working like a well oiled machine. Some of our players are only on match 3 or 4 or 5, they are still trying to come to terms with the best league in the world, in a foreign country and maybe not yet grasping the English language. That is what I think anyway. That is my opinion and I dont give a flying fart if others dont agree with it, that is their choice and entitlement! It makes no odds to me.

But can we please cut out the constant bickering and sniping? It is getting tiresome now

[ozzyten10]

Just played a game of footy with a load of Villa fans. The obnoxious twats think it’s 3 points already. They could not believe it when I said we have only lost 2 in 20 at home - an arsenal fan also put them right as he was there the day we stayed up. Come on forest don’t let these Villa twats with delusions of grandeur get anything on Sunday…