Promotion Handicap - The Runners & Riders

[Karankarl]

If Stoke sack Rowett and appoint Jokanovic or Bruce I can see them going on a good run. Let' s hope Rowett stays.

anyone who lands Jokanovic will significantly improve their chances of a strong finish to the season

goals, entertainment and progress guaranteed

Jokanovic bringing in Ollie Burke and Worrall back and a couple of other class signings would be genuinely exciting and instantly put is upto #3 or higher in the handicap

To be fair Jokanovic took awhile to sort Fulham joining in December 2015, though they did 80 points 6th in 2016-17 (first full season) it wasnt til this time last year he got his side and totally clicked which was nearly 2 years after he joined them. Stuff takes time so lets give AK the same because his vision of 4-2-3-1 will need more windows. But if Jokanovic say joined Stoke who already have the players then he could do it quicker and probs play offs this year, but yeah agree if he came here we have the players also

[Karankarl]

RE: Jokanovic v Karanka
Two ways to skin the promotion cat, both achieved it one with flair and attacking football one built on solid defence. One sacked from the Prem for shipping multi-goals and one sacked from the Prem with a fantastic defensive record but with the worst attack. 
(Maybe they should join together as a Clough-Taylor style partnership lol).

Unrealism aside we shouldnt dare think of changing for greener more exciting grass 10 months in to AKs plan. I know it could be more exciting but I believe AKs vision of 4-2-3-1 is exciting and he wants to play exciting football ahead of a super solid back 6. He needs more time and windows to achieve it but he would have already got near if his exciting signings of Dias and Goncalves had started to fire. Dont write them off just yet but if they dont make an impact by January we can expect a right sided attacker (or even Appiah) to hopefully fire immediately and we can get the most of out AK season #1

[Paplane]

At least 10 teams fighting to be in the mix. Are there 6 better than us over 46 games? Here's what I think.


NORWICH +6 - found the consistancy and the team spirit to stay up there but maybe lack the X factor players for top 2. They were the best team we've played though tbf

MIDDLESBROUGH +4 -  undoubtedly have the "built from the back" part nailed but I predict they might just find themselves short of top 2 and not positive enough to get though the play-offs and the fans arent happy with such boring football. Probably the players arent either.

SHEFFIELD UNITED +3 - along with Norwich probably the best 2 drilled and hardworking sides and so will punch above their weight, which they are doing again but as last season they surely lack the quality to stay ahead of 6 other sides in the the most competitive championship for years.

LEEDS UNITED  +3 - Decent football under Bielsa, probably the most like the Wolves of last year. Haven't quite got their quality though and unless they strengthen in Jan (which I fear they might big style go for it) then I can see them being overhauled by most.

WEST BROM +2 - As strong an attacking side as you'd ever need, Premier League XXL players, could win any game that they could be bothered to (so hope we dont get them in the play-offs). If they hold on to their key players in January whoever finishes above them will be going up I reckon

DERBY +1 - I will try and be objective. Yes Ive seen them rip apart title favourites West Brom and Middlesbrough, terrorise Man Utd reserves and win 4-1 at Chelsea, But under Frank they've only got one gear. 5th gear, or as I like to describe it 'ALL OUT NO DEFENCE'. It shouldn't take a David Platt to work out a plan to stop them (as the likes of relegation threatened Bolton and Villa have done). Either way the pressure is on its now or not yet for Derby cos if they keep it up then Frank will be linked with every Prem job going and of course Mount, Tomori and Wilson (the only reason they are any better than last season) are not their players and so wont be at Derby next season and wont give a ****. So lets just say....wheels....falling off....christmas etc......AGAIN.

FOREST Scratch - I will try and be objective. Were not in a bad place. 2 defeats and 2-1 down on goals from corners is a massive improvement from where we were last year (7th on 27 points!!). But it feels totally different, like we are 10x better.  Defensively were getting there, but that is a bit at detriment to the attack cos it can feel like we are playing with 10 going forward. We will sort it, Im sure Carvalho will only get better and we can certainly squeeze a bit more juice out of other attack minded players especially right side. At the minute we are relying on the likes of Grabban, Lolley, Robinson and Carvalho staying fit and firing but if they do and we add whats missing in Jan then we will defo be top 6. No doubt we will have as good a squad as any to cope with 49 game season and if we sign a killer right attacker we could flirt with the top 2. Its Karankas first season remember I think if we dont go up then AK will be nearer having all the players he needs to make his, at the minute a bit dull 4-2-3-1, into the exciting and solid vision of 4-2-3-1 he has in his head. I believe he can given time, but maybe 2 more windows will be needed if we can't get lucky this year.

8th SWANSEA -1 - Solid and organised defensively, not totally firing to their potential yet up front. That would put them in the same bracket as us and Middlesbrough but would expect us and Boro to finish higher.

11th VILLA -3 - Ridiculous squad. I couldnt say any of our players would be nailed on to get in their best XI. Obviously the best squad on paper in the league, but football is not played on paper its played on computers nowadays and do their super players have super stats......do they ****. Now theyve pinched Dean Smith its hard to see them not making up the ground with the squad theyve got as long as they get everyone playing his way. But can they?

16th STOKE -5  -  Ive included these in 'the mix' reluctantly. With Gary at the helm I doubt they are a danger. Again they have a Prem size XXL team and all the tools you'd think to bounce back. They're slowly improving and not too far behind but unless they sack Rowett I just cant see them doing a Fulham.

Other notable mentions who I can't see doing a Fulham are -
15th Brentford -5 (not now DS gone), 12th Birmingham -3 (already firing well above their weight), 10th QPR -1 (midtable), 9th Blackburn -1 (naaa).



3 from 10. That's how I see it. We're in the mix 30% chance of the promised land.

For what its worth this is how Sporting Index see the season panning out (They think we gonna get worse)

1. LEEDS 80
2. MIDDLESBROUGH 78
___________________
3. SHEFFIELD UNITED 77
4. NORWICH 77
5. WBA 76
6. DERBY 73
____________
7. ASTON VILLA 69
8. STOKE 67
9. FOREST 66 (thats 39 points expected from 29 games @ 1.34 ppg - CURRENTLY 1.58 ppg = 73 points)
10. BRENTFORD 66
11. SWANSEA 65
12. QPR 64

I wouldn't be surprised with a 9th placed finish given where we are right now.

I am expecting burn out from a number of the young players (home grown and foreign) and we are yet to experience a really bad run of results, which is surely inevitable?

It will be difficult for Lolley and Grabban to continue to produce the number of goals they have so far for the remainder of the season too.

I think for us to be top six someone like Ansifarad (sp?), Goncalves, Dias will need to make a large contribution in the second half of the season, plus another big signing in January to help us kick on.

I hear what you're saying but re Grabban, why cant he get 25 goals for us this season? He's consistently scored goals for other clubs.

And re the youngsters losing form, I feel we have decent cover and crucially, the back 4 is experienced. If we get another LB to cover Robinson then we look really solid back there. I do agree with your sentiment though and that's why I wonder if the sheep may fade a bit. It's their young players that are performing at the moment, can they continue to do that when the pressure builds and injuries and fatigue become a factor?

I just sense AK's ethos is beginning to come through in our performances, and crucially in the way you go about putting together a successful season. In my opinion with the excpetion of Norwich perhaps, we look as good as anyone in the division at the moment.

Pap, thanks for responding, you are always measured and balanced in your posts. 

In terms of Grabban it is not his ability to score that concerns me but rather his supply line. I am not convinced there is sufficient quality in our midfield in terms of depth to replace out of form or tired players. 

It’s a fair point to compare and contrast with the Lambs but I tend to ignore what they are doing except when we play them or when they fail in the playoffs. 

Interesting you mention AK’s ethos as you were pretty opposed to him for some time. Whilst I think he will set us up to be competitive, and I definitely think we can beat anyone in this division, I still feel that we will remain consistently inconsistent this season. 

Next season will be an entirely different matter I suspect.

Just to pick you up, I not opposed to him being our manager at all, he just frustrates the living daylights out of me sometimes. I wanted to see results improve through coaching of the players, rather than simply replacement with a new face. I think that's beginning to happen now. The defence is tightening up and the service is good to Grabban as he's now scoring regularly. AK will always bug me in that he doesnt scream and shout on the touchline, he just sends his players out and expects them to carry out the game plan.

And, I never ever wanted him removed from his job. No way. The contrast between his approach and that of Warburton is like night and day. IMO Warburton was having a play at being successful and a degree of failure was tolerated by him and put down to 'defeats will happen when we play this way'. With AK the whole club is rocked to it's core when a defeat happens. He just doesn't tolerate it.

I'm perplexed as to why you feel we're inconsistent. I may be wrong but I thought that in the last period between international breaks we've matched the points collected of most teams in the top 6. And considering the teams we played, that's good going.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Reading back through this thread It's sad how we have deteriorated in the last two months.

[Spangles]

A fair ref once in a while might help our cause.
We've had poor decisions go against us for most of the season.
No .....it doesn't even itself out either.
That is a load of old cobblers.

[McDurban]

Yeah, I have been annoyed by the number of senseless yellows, some of which become red. We seem to have repeat offenders too.

[Duncan Mckenzie]

Yeah, I have been annoyed by the number of senseless yellows, some of which become red. We seem to have repeat offenders too.

Robinson has been guilty of poor discipline on more than one occasion, he needs to wise up.

[optimistic_red]

Yeah, I have been annoyed by the number of senseless yellows, some of which become red. We seem to have repeat offenders too.

Robinson has been guilty of poor discipline on more than one occasion, he needs to wise up.

Which is why Karanka subbed him off against Norwich, worried that he was going to get a 2nd yellow. Bit of a turning point and momentum change in the game, and the rest is history.

[Paplane]

Yeah, I have been annoyed by the number of senseless yellows, some of which become red. We seem to have repeat offenders too.

Robinson has been guilty of poor discipline on more than one occasion, he needs to wise up.

He has been carrying the defence for the last month though which has likely heaped a load of pressure on him to 'lead', resulting in a few yellows.

[Duncan Mckenzie]

Yeah, I have been annoyed by the number of senseless yellows, some of which become red. We seem to have repeat offenders too.

Robinson has been guilty of poor discipline on more than one occasion, he needs to wise up.

He has been carrying the defence for the last month though which has likely heaped a load of pressure on him to 'lead', resulting in a few yellows.

That is no excuse for picking up two yellow cards for kicking the ball away, one which lead to a red card.

[Paplane]

Yeah, I have been annoyed by the number of senseless yellows, some of which become red. We seem to have repeat offenders too.

Robinson has been guilty of poor discipline on more than one occasion, he needs to wise up.

He has been carrying the defence for the last month though which has likely heaped a load of pressure on him to 'lead', resulting in a few yellows.

That is no excuse for picking up two yellow cards for kicking the ball away, one which lead to a red card.

Easy to say by us. In the heat of the moment with the adrenalin flowing its probably not so straightforward especially if you feel you're responsible for the teamand  you've got to fight to keep everything together.

[Redgirl]

I posted on another thread earlier in the season regarding my concerns re stupid yellows and was vilified, glad the points lost are now being taken seriously.

I like players such as Robinson but they do need to learn to control their temper. Tantrums could cost us promotion.