Reviewing Recruitment, Scouting and Succession Planning

[Sausage Roll]

Interesting discussion this - helping fill the void during the international break. Good points being made on both sides.

Personally the one thing I think we could do better is picking a philosophy and sticking to it, and having that philosophy running down from the first team right through all the academy age groups. Not sure if that's what you're getting at Widdow?

If we had that then we'd identify our next prospective managers in advance so that when we part company with one there's already someone else lined up. Jumping from defensive Nuno to gung-ho Ange back to defensive-ish Vitor and now to back-three Glasner doesn't make sense and leaves us constantly chopping-and-changing players. I think that's what the likes of Brighton and particularly Brentford do well. It allows consistency when scouting players too as the requirements for what players we want wouldn't change as much from manager to manager.

So it's not about hiring the best manager out there but hiring the best one for our philosophy. But without one we can't do that.

I certainly don't want to belittle what's happened over the last five years though. Getting up, staying up, Europe, semi-finals, £50m buys and £100m+ sales all seemed like a pipe dream during 20+ years outside the Premier League. But it would be nice to progress enough to not be fretting about whether we'll stay up or not. Even this season with what looks on paper like a good manager and squad that worry still remains for me.

[Widdow]

It makes me laugh when fans think the development of a recruitment policy/approach is something that can be simply imposed by design. If it were that simple then then there'd be no 'Brighton model' to try and copy, every club would have it.  I'm sure Brighton just have a few good individuals who are able to spot talent. That's probably the difference. And a sound recruitment policy is about selling at the right time and for the right money as well as buying. We're getting pretty good at that too by the look of things. No one leaves the club unless EM wants them to and for what he wants he considers to be the right money.

EM's doing fine in my book. How many clubs have 25 odd years out of the prem, eventually get promoted and then mange to stay up for 4 years and not yoyo a few times?

You’re missing the core point. Nobody is saying you can just press a button and magically become Brighton overnight—it’s about having a coherent structure and philosophy instead of relying on individual guesswork and agent relationships.
 
A few points on why it isn't just "a few good individuals who spot talent
 
1. Systems vs. Individuals: Brighton, Brentford, and Bournemouth don't just rely on "a few good scouts." When Brighton lost Paul Winstanley and Sam Jewell to Chelsea, their recruitment didn't collapse—because it's driven by proprietary data algorithms and an overarching strategy that transcends any single person. Relying on individual talent spotters means when those scouts leave (like the scout who brought us Murillo and then left for Newcastle), your entire pipe instantly dries up. That is precisely why you build a process.
 
2. The Multi-Club Asset Missed: Pointing out Brighton taking Kostoulas from Olympiacos isn't about copying Brighton—it's about asking why our own network isn't working for Forest. Marinakis owns Olympiacos and Rio Ave. That is a massive operational advantage 90% of clubs in world football don't have. Using Rio Ave as a developmental pathway for young talent isn't a complex mystery; it's basic multi-club integration that we are currently underutilising and in players from Oly not taking advantage of, its more like we are propping them up.
 
3. Selling vs. Succession: Selling players for good money is only half the equation. The key to sustainable top-flight football is having the replacement already in the building or identified six months before the sale happens. Selling well without succession planning just leaves you scrambling in the last 48 hours of a transfer window overpaying for short-term fixes.
 
Nobody is dismissing what EM has achieved—keeping us up for four consecutive seasons after 23 years away is an incredible feat that every fan appreciates, i mean it took him over 5 years to get us out of the championship. 
 
But staying up isn't the finish line; it's the baseline. Reviewing our scouting network and data infrastructure isn't "complaining," it's asking how we take the next step from survival to stability.

I reckon a lot of the things you mention are already happening and a lot more besides. Maybe give the club some credit without constantly sniping about how they could be better? I think sometimes because it's our club, who we've grown up with and seen operate in some really poor ways, we assume we're still not as good as the competition somehow.

Re multi club, you're forgetting that the players have all the power now from a young age. They may not want to be farmed out to a lowly club like Rio Ave. And Oly is a big club in it's own right and probably EM's first priority. He/they are not going to want their side to be awash with our youngsters, or for that matter have their star players plucked and moved on to us. They have to perform on the pitch too. You mention the boy who went to Brighton, how do you know that our data suggested he wasn't going to cut it in the prem? You don't. You're just assuming that because Brighton bought him EM has f****d up in some way. I remind you that Brighton paid £10m for Cashin a year or two ago, so they're not above an expensive mistake.  Aren't we signing youngsters now as academy prospects, rather than relying on local boys getting to the level (which they can't now)? That's the club pro-actively reacting to the current state of the game and attempting to secure the delivery of young talent who might be able to perform in the prem, rather than not making the grade and falling off to the EFL.

Re succession planning, Murillo arrived when we had decent-ish CB's already in the building. Same for Danilo (who incidentally was sold on for a massive profit). Cunha too. It might not fit your ideal, but they were young players who came in and were not reactionary signings following the loss of a first team player.

It is a continuous process, which is also helped by utilising the multi club infostructure - we could have a load more brazillains, young up and coming Europeans earning their stripes by getting minutes in Portugal

[JollyLollyAussie]

Glad you are on board SR regards a club ethos!

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Could things realistically have gone any better in the last 5 years?

Give it a rest it's embarrassing.

[ozzyten10]

I actually think recruitment has been a strength- we were the first to really hit the ‘get as much as possible and hope some stick’ philosophy in our first year that others have now copied- Hull and Sunderland for example. We then consolidated with some great pros - Aina, CHO, Dominguez, wood, et al to add to the success of Williams, MGW. Then became pickier and punts on potential - Murillo Ando alongside excellent pros - Milenkovic, Sels. Then an established international - Sangare - then the edu investment - most critical of this but Mcatee starting to gel. This years more strategic to fill gaps. We have a strong squad that Glasner has yet to get out of first gear - but I’m sure he will long term!

[Widdow]

Could things realistically have gone any better in the last 5 years?

Give it a rest it's embarrassing.

The simple answer to this of course yes. Considering the money spent. One great season in league, all other seasons in a relegation battle - albeit succesful battles. Great to get Europa league semi final which made so much hard work of and then failed badly at final hurdle, which ultimately cost Victor his job. 

The good news is yes still in Premier, but as to your question and thinking of the ambitions of owner, then yes could/should have been better. 

Not sure its embarrassing, its a forum debate (which you are not actually debating, just trying to belittle posters) in an international break where there is not much to talk about apart from on the back of a very dissapointing start to the season and what i would call embarrassing, loss to Coventry.

[Username]

Could things realistically have gone any better in the last 5 years?

Give it a rest it's embarrassing.

Isn’t this the reason why EM appointed Glasner?

He felt that we missed an opportunity last season, especially with how it played out against Villa over two legs. You’ve said this yourself.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Could things realistically have gone any better in the last 5 years?

Give it a rest it's embarrassing.

Think its a valid debate, there is no exaggeration, nobody is saying Glasner out, Marinakis out.
Just if we were billionaire owners of a football club what would we do differently because every one of us on here firmly believes we are experts and would win the league at a canter given the chance. Nowt wrong with that!

So could we do better? Forget Brighton that everyone bangs on about. I would prefer us to emulate Villa and their progress. OK possibly slightly bigger ground and Fanbase but not poles apart. They only stumbled on Emery mid season in 2022 after sacking Gerrard, fair to say its worked out better than expected but no reason we cant be similar with Glasner?

Villa were promoted in 2019 so 3 years ahead of us. Finishes as follows
17th
11th
14th
7th
4th
6th
4th

Only real relegation struggle was 1st season back, after that decent progress and a trophy. So I would say although we had one very good season yes we can do better and thats the example we should aspire too.

[Marinakis Red]

Nothing will change so you need to get used to it.

For EM it's all about the present and the here and now.

That is the way he does things and the way he will always do things.

I agree, it is always about the "moment" with EM. I wonder how he is feeling about the start to the season. Can't score, out of the most winnable cup and have just lost to Coventry, who were not even in the Championship when we went up!

They were we lost on the opening day of the season then beat them 2-0 at home with Jimmy Garner getting the second.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

This time 5 years ago we were bottom of the Championship.

What were you realistically exoecting to happen in the 5 years that have followed?

For us to be champions of Europe and top of the PL?

You are unreasonable and living in fantasy land.

Our rise in the last 5 years has been nothing short of remarkable.

[Paplane]

This time 5 years ago we were bottom of the Championship.

What were you realistically exoecting to happen in the 5 years that have followed?

For us to be champions of Europe and top of the PL?

You are unreasonable and living in fantasy land.

Our rise in the last 5 years has been nothing short of remarkable.

I think people also underestimate how difficult it is to get promoted (after such a long time out) and then stay in the division for a sustained period of time like we have. Lets not forget the team that got promoted was full of loan signings too so we actually started from a negative position.

And also, we're not a club like Brentford or Brighton. Those clubs, no matter how well people think they're 'run', are not ambitious clubs. We are. We've got history, tradition and high expectations. That applies a pressure dynamic that those other clubs just don't have to deal with. Leeds are the same.

[Marinakis Red]

This time 5 years ago we were bottom of the Championship.

What were you realistically exoecting to happen in the 5 years that have followed?

For us to be champions of Europe and top of the PL?

You are unreasonable and living in fantasy land.

Our rise in the last 5 years has been nothing short of remarkable.

It has been an incredible rise, its been such an enjoyable ride and I think this season will also be an enjoyable one.