Thoughts On The Next Nottingham Forest Manager

[wassy04]

The difficulty is that our club is not a Watford. Watford are a yo-yo team whose strategy has paid off with several parachute payments to keep them fairly wealthy. We have invested hundreds of millions into a squad to try and stay in the league. EM will be desperate to stay in the league at all costs, and he won’t care if that involves changing manager. If we were to go down, there’s no guarantee we’d come back up. It could be a very very long time. That’s what EM is desperate to avoid.

Agree with that but disagree about not coming straight back up. This one season in the prem is likely to make us championship promotion challengers for the next to seasons after relegation. Im sure the stats will bear that out.

Yeah particularly with the alleged quality in the squad, will be like Fulham etc in the championship. 

I don't think a new manager gives us more chance of staying up in my opinion. I think it's more likely the guy that's been here and has seen the players in action for longer, has learned more of their strengths/weaknesses, has been working with them on the training ground to do what he thinks is best etc. I think that guy has more chance of turning it around, than a new guy that has to spend another 8-10 games working out who to play, what formation etc. Add in the long term loss of a highly rated manager, the reputational damage for sacking a manager early and I just don't see the benefit.

[Sausage Roll]

The difficulty is that our club is not a Watford. Watford are a yo-yo team whose strategy has paid off with several parachute payments to keep them fairly wealthy. We have invested hundreds of millions into a squad to try and stay in the league. EM will be desperate to stay in the league at all costs, and he won’t care if that involves changing manager. If we were to go down, there’s no guarantee we’d come back up. It could be a very very long time. That’s what EM is desperate to avoid.

Agree with that but disagree about not coming straight back up. This one season in the prem is likely to make us championship promotion challengers for the next to seasons after relegation. Im sure the stats will bear that out.

Yeah particularly with the alleged quality in the squad, will be like Fulham etc in the championship. 

I don't think a new manager gives us more chance of staying up in my opinion. I think it's more likely the guy that's been here and has seen the players in action for longer, has learned more of their strengths/weaknesses, has been working with them on the training ground to do what he thinks is best etc. I think that guy has more chance of turning it around, than a new guy that has to spend another 8-10 games working out who to play, what formation etc. Add in the long term loss of a highly rated manager, the reputational damage for sacking a manager early and I just don't see the benefit.

But by that logic we should've stuck with Hughton last season and not appointed Cooper in the first place.

Pretty-much everything you've typed there applies to our situation last season.

[wassy04]

It's not just that though Wassy is it. There is a bigger picture than the one you are painting.

The bigger picture is surely that he's been here a year and secured promotion with a team that was previously bottom of the league. He's bailed out the ownership's largely poor transfer strategy by somehow turning that group into a promotion team and got them playing some fantastic football.

If you're referring to the contract issue, if his position is under threat I suspect that contract offer has been withdrawn and probably was a while ago. Obviously I don't know what's happened there, so without further information, it would be difficult to think of many scenarios where Cooper is the one who's at fault. Again, if proven wrong so be it, suspect we'll never get the full story though, NDAs etc.

It would be funny today if Cooper rings Marinakis and says "go on then, I will accept the new contract, cheers boss!"

[JollyLolly]

SC not signing the contract that was on offer a few months ago seems to have an instability effect with most footballing matters at the club. I would hope in the 1st instance the owners/directors/management thrash this out NOW and come to a sensible conclusion one way or the other. I am sure that the players are aware of matters behind the scenes, we need a reset and go again.

[northeastred]

Think it's pretty certain that new contract might be in the bin ?

[wassy04]

The difficulty is that our club is not a Watford. Watford are a yo-yo team whose strategy has paid off with several parachute payments to keep them fairly wealthy. We have invested hundreds of millions into a squad to try and stay in the league. EM will be desperate to stay in the league at all costs, and he won’t care if that involves changing manager. If we were to go down, there’s no guarantee we’d come back up. It could be a very very long time. That’s what EM is desperate to avoid.

Agree with that but disagree about not coming straight back up. This one season in the prem is likely to make us championship promotion challengers for the next to seasons after relegation. Im sure the stats will bear that out.

Yeah particularly with the alleged quality in the squad, will be like Fulham etc in the championship. 

I don't think a new manager gives us more chance of staying up in my opinion. I think it's more likely the guy that's been here and has seen the players in action for longer, has learned more of their strengths/weaknesses, has been working with them on the training ground to do what he thinks is best etc. I think that guy has more chance of turning it around, than a new guy that has to spend another 8-10 games working out who to play, what formation etc. Add in the long term loss of a highly rated manager, the reputational damage for sacking a manager early and I just don't see the benefit.

But by that logic we should've stuck with Hughton last season and not appointed Cooper in the first place.

Pretty-much everything you've typed there applies to our situation last season.

Yeah I've thought that before trying to defend it. There are differences though, CH had a year and showed no hint of success. He had no fan support. Cooper has already proven he can create a winning team, albeit at a different level. 

Also, circumstances are just so different. Signing 22 new players is completely unprecedented and teams that have previously gone down this route have also struggled. Whoever was the manager would've struggled. The month or so he's had (inc an international break) with the full squad, is that enough time to build a unity. How many players have been signed expecting to start every game and then found they're not getting minutes. How are you meant to know what the best team is when you've barely seen half of them play. 

The team Cooper inherited did not have the above issues and Hughton should've been able to get a better tune out of them. Signing almost an entirely new team means it's like starting from scratch, 8 games is not enough time to make that judgement. Why would a new manager be able to do any better?

Also, can I add it worked last year changing manager. It had not worked for the previous 20 years!

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

This is the next manager thread chaps.

Lets stay on track please. Just take a second to put your post in the right thread please. Thanks.

[Paplane]

The difficulty is that our club is not a Watford. Watford are a yo-yo team whose strategy has paid off with several parachute payments to keep them fairly wealthy. We have invested hundreds of millions into a squad to try and stay in the league. EM will be desperate to stay in the league at all costs, and he won’t care if that involves changing manager. If we were to go down, there’s no guarantee we’d come back up. It could be a very very long time. That’s what EM is desperate to avoid.

Agree with that but disagree about not coming straight back up. This one season in the prem is likely to make us championship promotion challengers for the next to seasons after relegation. Im sure the stats will bear that out.

Yeah particularly with the alleged quality in the squad, will be like Fulham etc in the championship. 

I don't think a new manager gives us more chance of staying up in my opinion. I think it's more likely the guy that's been here and has seen the players in action for longer, has learned more of their strengths/weaknesses, has been working with them on the training ground to do what he thinks is best etc. I think that guy has more chance of turning it around, than a new guy that has to spend another 8-10 games working out who to play, what formation etc. Add in the long term loss of a highly rated manager, the reputational damage for sacking a manager early and I just don't see the benefit.

I cant think of a better manager id rather have in the championship than Cooper. That's the dilemma and why Im torn. I'm also very respectful of Cooper who is a throughly decent bloke. I hope the club look after him if he does leave.

[Sausage Roll]

Fabrizio Romano
@FabrizioRomano
Claudio Ranieri has decided to turn down Sampdoria approaches — he’s not returning to the Italian club and he’s still available on free managers market. ??? #SerieA

Sampdoria, tempted by Stanković as new manager — Nottingham Forest, Wolves & Sevilla decisions expected soon.


No names mentioned for Forest here but if Romano is talking about 'decisions expected soon' then that sounds like something is going on.

[Paplane]

Fabrizio Romano
@FabrizioRomano
Claudio Ranieri has decided to turn down Sampdoria approaches — he’s not returning to the Italian club and he’s still available on free managers market. ??? #SerieA

Sampdoria, tempted by Stanković as new manager — Nottingham Forest, Wolves & Sevilla decisions expected soon.


No names mentioned for Forest here but if Romano is talking about 'decisions expected soon' then that sounds like something is going on.

Oh ffs if Ranieri and Benitez are the types of candidates we're considering then I think we should stick with Cooper.

[wassy04]

Fabrizio Romano
@FabrizioRomano
Claudio Ranieri has decided to turn down Sampdoria approaches — he’s not returning to the Italian club and he’s still available on free managers market. ??? #SerieA

Sampdoria, tempted by Stanković as new manager — Nottingham Forest, Wolves & Sevilla decisions expected soon.


No names mentioned for Forest here but if Romano is talking about 'decisions expected soon' then that sounds like something is going on.

Based on previous record of changing manager, I suspect we'll hear about the new appointment at the same time as the sacking. So it just depends how long it takes them to find someone they like.

If it's a few weeks perhaps it buys Cooper some time to win a few games and rebuild.

[Sausage Roll]

Fabrizio Romano
@FabrizioRomano
Claudio Ranieri has decided to turn down Sampdoria approaches — he’s not returning to the Italian club and he’s still available on free managers market. ??? #SerieA

Sampdoria, tempted by Stanković as new manager — Nottingham Forest, Wolves & Sevilla decisions expected soon.


No names mentioned for Forest here but if Romano is talking about 'decisions expected soon' then that sounds like something is going on.

Based on previous record of changing manager, I suspect we'll hear about the new appointment at the same time as the sacking. So it just depends how long it takes them to find someone they like.

If it's a few weeks perhaps it buys Cooper some time to win a few games and rebuild.

Watford recently beat our 18 minutes from O'Neill to Lamouchi with 16 minutes between their last firing and hiring.