Sean Dyche, Stoney And Woany

[Red Dog]

There comes a time when NFFC has to stop making mistakes and sort out it's identity and future aspirations. This is how a successful club operates. We cannot go from where we are to being successful in 12-18 months. You need a stable base to achieve longevity.

Structure for the recruitment and playing style neeeds to apply for all levels of the club and this does not happen overnight. These things take time to successfully be put into place.By this I mean there should be progreasion patha for all levels. I accept Anderson et al will be sold for a massive profit, which should then be used to recruit / devwlop the next 2 Andersons etc.

As a fan base, i feel we need to see a progressive growth season on season and less of a short term approach. I feel, this means stability and not repeating mistakes. We have the Europa League to focus on now and it looks like we will qualify for the knock-out stages at least. That said, we are where we are in the league and a 7 point gap could closed quickly if improvement is not around the corner.

Really good post. However I have yet to see NFFC operate in the way you want and its not set up to do so.

Thanks and I agree with what you say. If we want to be successful going forward (& we can be) we have to have longevity in our planning and there is definite evidence of this in the plans for the WFCG and the ambitions of the owner.  I guess i am looking at stability and firm foundations. 

As a club we have won Eurpean cups and been champions of England along with FA & League cups. I want to see us challenging for these again but this will take some time. I was fortunate to have been alive when we had Cloughie at his best. I hope future generations get the opportunity. More evolution, less revolution. 

COYR!

[Red Dog]

Furrher to my last post, I have just received this message from my eldest. Hard to disagree.

Our best signings since promotion have been young hungry players who have a point to prove. The best players in their clubs academies but not given any opportunities in the first team.

We should be looking at clubs like Chelsea, City and Arsenal and taking their youngsters.Chelsea especially. They buy hundreds of players each window and have 40 pro players to choose from before they think about their youngsters.
We should even be looking at taking their U18s coach. He’s been at the club 20 years and has a UEFA pro license, so could manage prem team, responsable for producing all of the talent that has come out of Chelsea in that time. But now he’s getting snubbed for promotions because of favouritism. One of the new directors at Chelsea used to run an academy (Kinetic Academy) and he gave loads of jobs at Chelsea to his coaches from his academy, the guy who was interim manager being one of those (despite only having a UEFA B license). McFarlane came into Chelsea as U18s assistant then two weeks later was promoted to U21s manager after “impressing”, after Chelsea lost their U21s coach to Strasbourg (they manoeuvred a deal to get him the job). Instead of promoting the guy who’s been at the club 20 years with a pro license, they promoted the guy who’s been at the club two weeks with a B license.That guy must be worth talking to and he’ll have connections to most of the talent in London.

[wassy04]

Furrher to my last post, I have just received this message from my eldest. Hard to disagree.

Our best signings since promotion have been young hungry players who have a point to prove. The best players in their clubs academies but not given any opportunities in the first team.

We should be looking at clubs like Chelsea, City and Arsenal and taking their youngsters.Chelsea especially. They buy hundreds of players each window and have 40 pro players to choose from before they think about their youngsters.
We should even be looking at taking their U18s coach. He’s been at the club 20 years and has a UEFA pro license, so could manage prem team, responsable for producing all of the talent that has come out of Chelsea in that time. But now he’s getting snubbed for promotions because of favouritism. One of the new directors at Chelsea used to run an academy (Kinetic Academy) and he gave loads of jobs at Chelsea to his coaches from his academy, the guy who was interim manager being one of those (despite only having a UEFA B license). McFarlane came into Chelsea as U18s assistant then two weeks later was promoted to U21s manager after “impressing”, after Chelsea lost their U21s coach to Strasbourg (they manoeuvred a deal to get him the job). Instead of promoting the guy who’s been at the club 20 years with a pro license, they promoted the guy who’s been at the club two weeks with a B license.That guy must be worth talking to and he’ll have connections to most of the talent in London.

Players like McAtee?  :Funny:

[ToryTom]

If you sack him, who is coming in to be manager at this time? 

Does it make it easier or harder to get some good signings in this window/summer?

Does it make it easier/harder to get a top manager in the summer?

Yet to hear any good answers to the above. This season sucks but I don't feel like we have loads of choice.

If we don’t get rid we will go down. We were lucky to beat WHam. There is enough games left for Nuno to improve their results and i hardly see our performances resulting in many more victories. We have a decent enough squad. Should be doing better. He isn’t getting a tune out of them.

[Paplane]

Clubs like ours live and die by the quality of their recruitment. In the last few seasons we've picked up talent like Murillo, Danillo, CHO, Elanga and Anderson. That has seen us survive, just, build and then have a really decent season. This year the incomings have been poor beyond belief and yet we've shelled out big sums for them. We're dying now as a result. I can see us staying up this season, just, but unless something fundamentally changes we're dead certs to be relegated next season.

[ormerdonkey]

If you sack him, who is coming in to be manager at this time? 

Does it make it easier or harder to get some good signings in this window/summer?

Does it make it easier/harder to get a top manager in the summer?

Yet to hear any good answers to the above. This season sucks but I don't feel like we have loads of choice.

If we don’t get rid we will go down. We were lucky to beat WHam. There is enough games left for Nuno to improve their results and i hardly see our performances resulting in many more victories. We have a decent enough squad. Should be doing better. He isn’t getting a tune out of them.

Regarding Nuno. That really depends on if the players are turned against him already. Same here with Dyche. Are the players crap or do they just not buy into his playing style now?

[Paplane]

We have to stick with Dyche now whether we think we rate him or not. Sacking him now at this stage would be the ultimate act of self harm.

If anyone's got to go it Edu. He's lost us our most successful manager in a generation, and shown questionable judgment on transfers. And don't forget, this is the guy who wanted Mancini as the next coach. How would that have worked out? He may be a legend down at Arsenal but up here he's a walking disaster zone.

[Red Dog]

We have to stick with Dyche now whether we think we rate him or not. Sacking him now at this stage would be the ultimate act of self harm.

If anyone's got to go it Edu. He's lost us our most successful manager in a generation, and shown questionable judgment on transfers. And don't forget, this is the guy who wanted Mancini as the next coach. How would that have worked out? He may be a legend down at Arsenal but up here he's a walking disaster zone.

+1

[Squarered]

I agree, we can't move onto manager 4 this season. For me Edu carries the can for recruitment this summer which has turned out to be poor and also for disrupting the harmony we had with Nuno in charge. We have gone backwards since his appointment.
McAtee drives me mad, clearly doesn't give a fig about Forest, why did he sign. Thank god MGW signed a new contract, imagine if we were relying on McAtee this season.

[DR Forest]

I put a version of this on the Wrexham thread but think it’s more appropriate to raise here or on the current players thread as part of a wider debate:

I am NOT defending Dyche - the jury is still out- but whoever is the manager, under the current ‘modern’ recruitment system, are we not forever papering over the cracks?
I’ll start with Sniff’s counter argument first, which is very valid- we can’t give a single manager the licence to sign players alone. I think everyone sees the risk with that!

But there is a recruitment issue.

As for Dyche, the current incumbent, we must remember it’s not his squad.
The fact staring everyone in the face is that someone wasted over 100m of EM’s money this summer.

People moaned that Dyche never brings on subs to change a game- well, for those who couldn’t see the reason why not before last night, at least it’s there for you in plain view now.

Add to that we lost the best right wing pairing in the league (elanga and Aina) and a top striker, clearly there’s going to be a drop off in quality. Watching the players hug Nuno after wham Dyche clearly has an uphill struggle to unite the remainder, too.

Oh how people turned their noses up at links to McNeill because we already had several ‘glamorous’ wingers already. Well, wake up; they aren’t good enough right here, right now.

EVERYONE knew the big task in the summer was to bolster the squad to maintain the top 8 push and do well in Europe. It’s now been long enough to be able to ask the question- who is responsible? Because it damned well hasn’t worked.

I’m loathe to blame Edu without evidence but as the major change behind the scenes, it’s not unreasonable to think it’s on him at least in part; be that the recruitment overall or the start of the boat rocking when Nuno jumped ship.
Or was Ross Wilson a bigger cog in the machine than we thought?

So Who is in charge of the purchase department?

I ask because I think the underlying issue is more the recruitment than the manager; it’s not the way each manager uses individual players that is the bigger issue.
Even a shit poker player can win the pot if he’s dealt the best hand.

[wassy04]

If you sack him, who is coming in to be manager at this time? 

Does it make it easier or harder to get some good signings in this window/summer?

Does it make it easier/harder to get a top manager in the summer?

Yet to hear any good answers to the above. This season sucks but I don't feel like we have loads of choice.

If we don’t get rid we will go down. We were lucky to beat WHam. There is enough games left for Nuno to improve their results and i hardly see our performances resulting in many more victories. We have a decent enough squad. Should be doing better. He isn’t getting a tune out of them.

Not denying its bad but you're answer didn't answer any of the questions. I do agree we're underachieving right now but maybe not as much as some. Based on the injuries, disappointing signings and having three managers probably only a few wins off where I'd think would be reasonable.

Anyway, who are you bringing? Man Utd are about to re appoint Ole as a caretaker as they know they can't get anyone decent in January and Chelsea got Rosenior. Wolves had to appoint Rob Edwards which is likely the pool we'd be fishing in.

[wassy04]

I agree, we can't move onto manager 4 this season. For me Edu carries the can for recruitment this summer which has turned out to be poor and also for disrupting the harmony we had with Nuno in charge. We have gone backwards since his appointment.
McAtee drives me mad, clearly doesn't give a fig about Forest, why did he sign. Thank god MGW signed a new contract, imagine if we were relying on McAtee this season.

Yeah if I was going to sack someone right now I'd go for Edu, more for the Nuno stuff than how the signings have gone. Maybe if we'd just signed bloody Traore we'd be midtable and Kali/Mcatee would be tearing up the league!