Arsenal - Nottingham Forest

[Username]

It's only one game, and its too soon to panic, but that first game showed NO development of our tactics and no better squad management from Cooper than last year.

He's absolutely correct about this. The tactics and approach are exactly the same.

But carried out far more effectively than last season in same fixture. A Jonno finish or VAR check from nicking a brilliant away point.

Yes it was Wassy but when are we going to actually try to look like a competitive side in these games? By competitive I mean try to look like we deserve to be on the same pitch, rather than a lower leage side clinging on? We look good when we start to play at the end of the games. We play Brennan up top on his own and he's useless in that position. Nothing's changed in the last 9 months.

This weekend ive watched Burnley get beaten by Man City and Wilves get beaten at Man Utd. Both teams lost like us but they had a go at least.

But they still lost.

[wassy04]

He's absolutely correct about this. The tactics and approach are exactly the same.

But carried out far more effectively than last season in same fixture. A Jonno finish or VAR check from nicking a brilliant away point.

Yes it was Wassy but when are we going to actually try to look like a competitive side in these games? By competitive I mean try to look like we deserve to be on the same pitch, rather than a lower leage side clinging on? We look good when we start to play at the end of the games. We play Brennan up top on his own and he's useless in that position. Nothing's changed in the last 9 months.

This weekend ive watched Burnley get beaten by Man City and Wilves get beaten at Man Utd. Both teams lost like us but they had a go at least.

Wolves yes were very impressive. Burnley were at home and the game wasn't close. Not sure they did anything more than we did really.

Also, yes Brennan is not a CF, feels like he's just being shoe-horned onto the pitch at that point. I'd probably rather see Wood start in that role if Taiwo is unavailable or different tactics.

I think how we played on Saturday was very different to how we played last year until the last few months against the top sides. We were way better at stopping them create chances whilst still maintaining our counter attacking threat. They really created very little from all that possession. Think back to Spurs away for example last year, an average team and the game was just gone almost instantly. Not many teams would be able to force their way back into a game with Arsenal at The Emirates

I just think we're in damger of thinking we performed really well when in reality we were up against an Arsenal team who were not at it and finding their feet again. They were content at 2-0 and just playing the game out. If we hadn't scored our break away goal at the end we wouldn't be so positive about the game. 

Back to the original point, how many games have we won playing this way? Very few and none away. In fact its pretty much always a L away. The tactics havent changed and the result is always the same.

If Saka hadn't stuck one in the top corner or Brennan had scored his sitter we might've got a positive result so bit unfair taking our goal out!

Little unfair as we started playing this way during a tough run of fixtures. Narrowly lost to Villa, Liverpool, Brentford (that one still hurts), drew with Chelsea and Palace. Also beat Arsenal and Brighton too. I think we haven't had a long enough period of time to judge this style as we only started using it late however early signs are pretty positive in comparison to when we played 433 or 3412.

[Username]

He's absolutely correct about this. The tactics and approach are exactly the same.

But carried out far more effectively than last season in same fixture. A Jonno finish or VAR check from nicking a brilliant away point.

Yes it was Wassy but when are we going to actually try to look like a competitive side in these games? By competitive I mean try to look like we deserve to be on the same pitch, rather than a lower leage side clinging on? We look good when we start to play at the end of the games. We play Brennan up top on his own and he's useless in that position. Nothing's changed in the last 9 months.

This weekend ive watched Burnley get beaten by Man City and Wilves get beaten at Man Utd. Both teams lost like us but they had a go at least.

Wolves yes were very impressive. Burnley were at home and the game wasn't close. Not sure they did anything more than we did really.

Also, yes Brennan is not a CF, feels like he's just being shoe-horned onto the pitch at that point. I'd probably rather see Wood start in that role if Taiwo is unavailable or different tactics.

I think how we played on Saturday was very different to how we played last year until the last few months against the top sides. We were way better at stopping them create chances whilst still maintaining our counter attacking threat. They really created very little from all that possession. Think back to Spurs away for example last year, an average team and the game was just gone almost instantly. Not many teams would be able to force their way back into a game with Arsenal at The Emirates

I just think we're in damger of thinking we performed really well when in reality we were up against an Arsenal team who were not at it and finding their feet again. They were content at 2-0 and just playing the game out. If we hadn't scored our break away goal at the end we wouldn't be so positive about the game. 

Back to the original point, how many games have we won playing this way? Very few and none away. In fact its pretty much always a L away. The tactics havent changed and the result is always the same.

We played like this a fair bit at home too.

[JoeWorrallsBrain]

2. Everyone is aware of thus and we played a back five and he contained the 2nd best team in the league.
3. Taiwo was coming back from injury. 

We narrowly lost to an excellent team away from home ffs. We got battered by them last year, clear improvement. They only created a handful of chances as showed by the xG of 0.6. Basically, glory piece of skill and a wonder goal. Jonno had easily the best chance too.

Why do people have such ridiculous and unreleastic expectations. Its so infuriating, if you're going to be annoyed at narrowly losing at Arsenal, I'm not sure you're going to ever enjoy following a football team.

2.  He didn't contain the second best team.  When he was exposed one on one (which was inevitable) the ball was slotted between his legs (because he couldn't close down the shooter) for the first goal.  In general, Worrall plays too far off his mark inside the box, even when the opposing team is moving the ball across goal rather than running at the defence.  My point is that you can't have players in your lineup who are liabilities and who force you into formations to support them, and then still have them fail, at the additional expense of any attempt at competing.
3.  That doesn't explain why Cooper took Johnson off when he brought Awoniyi on.  I don't think Cooper can conceive of a formation where they both can start the game.

Arsenal is a better team than Forest at this moment.  However, it is difficult to score in the Premier League, and that means underdogs always have a chance, as long they don't resign themselves to defeat (or a tie) from the outset.  It's too early in this season to playing for strategic 0-0 draws.

I'm not annoyed that we lost to Arsenal.  I'm annoyed that we didn't attempt to win.

Back again, confusing opinion for facts. The fact that you say 'Arsenal is' undermines all the bombast.

Almost everything written in this forum is opinion.  If you have nothing to say about someone else's opinion, the best approach would be not to post.

Joe was exposed on the one v one. Why was he exposed in that way? The ball had been dribbled past two defenders before being passed, then Boly was easily turned before it even got to the point of the shot coming in. That is hardly his fault is it? The ball deflected slightly as it was shot at goal. Joe was doing his job of trying to block the shot. Sadly the deflection took the ball away from Turner. The point at which Joe came into the equation  wasn't down to his poor play, it was just sheer bloody bad luck! But only Joe gets any blame attached to him, none of the others who were  more at fault than he was.

I also note there is no criticism of either Johnson for missing the one v one on the Arsenal goal or for MGW who lost possession in a dangerous area for Arsenals second, which it has to be said was an absolute cracker by Saka

For the record, I was reasonably content with the scoreline on Saturday, given we were playing the runners-up of the best league in the world, in their own backyard. Yes, the first half we were poor but in the second half, especially after the substitutions, we looked far more impressive. So to lose to Arsenal by just the one goal at the Emirates was nothing to be ashamed at.

Remember our first season back in the Old Div 1 under Cloughie and our second away match was to Arsenal at Highbury? We lost that one 3-0 and look where we finished in the league that year!

Other players make mistakes.  It wouldn't be a sport if they didn't.  My point about Worrall is that he lacks ability.  He makes mistakes regularly because he lacks ability at this level.

Johnson did squander his scoring opportunity.  Of course, he only had one, and it came to him rather unexpectedly, rather from developing play.  In the end, he chose a difficult option - to chip the keeper from in tight to him and from just inside the box.  His better option was probably to pull the ball around the keeper (which might have drawn a penalty if nothing else).  However, I have also seen that Johnson has a great deal of ability.  He has scored.  He has created goals for others.   I know that Worrall is a defender, not a forward.  I'm looking at his play through that lens, but I just don't see the ability, I just see the repetitive mistakes.

I also agree with your comment about MGW's giveaway, and his giveaways in general.  He had a poor game by his standards.  But I've also seen his ability.  That's the difference.

Finally, I agree that a 2-1 scoreline against a top 2 club is not disastrous.  What I am saying, however, is that we shouldn't take heart in losing when had a plan to do exactly that.  I would have thought that fans have enough faith in the team to expect them to build on last season and be more competitive against top teams.  That means going into games with a plan where we intend to win, not a plan to avoid losing too badly.  The latter may be appropriate in the latter part of the season if we are in a position where we are barely hanging on to survive.  At this point in the season, I want management to show faith in their off season adjustments, go out there to win, and see how high we can rise in the table.

I also agree with you that there is still plenty of time to show the improvement I am hoping for.

[stefanduma]

A certain Mr Clough had a few teams that tended to defend and hit teams on the break.

[zicorice]

2.  He didn't contain the second best team.  When he was exposed one on one (which was inevitable) the ball was slotted between his legs (because he couldn't close down the shooter) for the first goal.  In general, Worrall plays too far off his mark inside the box, even when the opposing team is moving the ball across goal rather than running at the defence.  My point is that you can't have players in your lineup who are liabilities and who force you into formations to support them, and then still have them fail, at the additional expense of any attempt at competing.
3.  That doesn't explain why Cooper took Johnson off when he brought Awoniyi on.  I don't think Cooper can conceive of a formation where they both can start the game.

Arsenal is a better team than Forest at this moment.  However, it is difficult to score in the Premier League, and that means underdogs always have a chance, as long they don't resign themselves to defeat (or a tie) from the outset.  It's too early in this season to playing for strategic 0-0 draws.

I'm not annoyed that we lost to Arsenal.  I'm annoyed that we didn't attempt to win.

Back again, confusing opinion for facts. The fact that you say 'Arsenal is' undermines all the bombast.

Almost everything written in this forum is opinion.  If you have nothing to say about someone else's opinion, the best approach would be not to post.

Joe was exposed on the one v one. Why was he exposed in that way? The ball had been dribbled past two defenders before being passed, then Boly was easily turned before it even got to the point of the shot coming in. That is hardly his fault is it? The ball deflected slightly as it was shot at goal. Joe was doing his job of trying to block the shot. Sadly the deflection took the ball away from Turner. The point at which Joe came into the equation  wasn't down to his poor play, it was just sheer bloody bad luck! But only Joe gets any blame attached to him, none of the others who were  more at fault than he was.

I also note there is no criticism of either Johnson for missing the one v one on the Arsenal goal or for MGW who lost possession in a dangerous area for Arsenals second, which it has to be said was an absolute cracker by Saka

For the record, I was reasonably content with the scoreline on Saturday, given we were playing the runners-up of the best league in the world, in their own backyard. Yes, the first half we were poor but in the second half, especially after the substitutions, we looked far more impressive. So to lose to Arsenal by just the one goal at the Emirates was nothing to be ashamed at.

Remember our first season back in the Old Div 1 under Cloughie and our second away match was to Arsenal at Highbury? We lost that one 3-0 and look where we finished in the league that year!

Other players make mistakes.  It wouldn't be a sport if they didn't.  My point about Worrall is that he lacks ability.  He makes mistakes regularly because he lacks ability at this level.

Johnson did squander his scoring opportunity.  Of course, he only had one, and it came to him rather unexpectedly, rather from developing play.  In the end, he chose a difficult option - to chip the keeper from in tight to him and from just inside the box.  His better option was probably to pull the ball around the keeper (which might have drawn a penalty if nothing else).  However, I have also seen that Johnson has a great deal of ability.  He has scored.  He has created goals for others.   I know that Worrall is a defender, not a forward.  I'm looking at his play through that lens, but I just don't see the ability, I just see the repetitive mistakes.

I also agree with your comment about MGW's giveaway, and his giveaways in general.  He had a poor game by his standards.  But I've also seen his ability.  That's the difference.

Finally, I agree that a 2-1 scoreline against a top 2 club is not disastrous.  What I am saying, however, is that we shouldn't take heart in losing when had a plan to do exactly that.  I would have thought that fans have enough faith in the team to expect them to build on last season and be more competitive against top teams.  That means going into games with a plan where we intend to win, not a plan to avoid losing too badly.  The latter may be appropriate in the latter part of the season if we are in a position where we are barely hanging on to survive.  At this point in the season, I want management to show faith in their off season adjustments, go out there to win, and see how high we can rise in the table.

I also agree with you that there is still plenty of time to show the improvement I am hoping for.

The same Joe Worrall has had 2 outstanding games v Arsenal in his last  3 league games, yet you say he lacks ability. I wish I lacked ability enough to do this....