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Short Term Or Long Term - wassy04 - 22-07-2021
I think I already know the answer to this but it would be good to be able to bring this up to remind people when they start complaining after/during every defeat.
Simple question, forgetting all historic strategy and assuming we have a solid budget but not parachute payment worthy or close to it.
Option 1: Would you rather we only made a handful of young, well thought out signings, accepting that we'd likely finish midtable at best. Also, allowing a chance to bring more academy players into the first team.
Option 2: Or would you prefer to continue to go for promotion this season by targeting available free transfers and taking advantage of other clubs struggling more financially. This would largely consist of signing players likely in the mid to late 20s from other championship teams or prem teams.
Option 3: A blend of the two above options, however to budget for this we'd have to sell Worrall, gambling that we could replace him and still be able to push for playoffs.
RE: Short Term or Long Term - PsychoStanleyStone - 22-07-2021
you can't get us that easy, it's a trick question innit?, i'm assuming this poll is assuming there is a transfer strategy template or someone in the club knows what a transfer strategy looks like and even then if there is an official strategy would we actually get told and sold on it? Last few years seems to be a coach load of rusty ringers on the last day of the transfer window. This is what short term seems to mean but regards a strategy for promotion this season i don't think the club has the vision or integrity to achieve much at all as in attract the players and mould them into a force to be reckoned with, if i thought we did i would vote short term as in promotion not another fiasco, though if it's going to be another fiasco i guess short term wins both ways.
RE: Short Term or Long Term - wassy04 - 22-07-2021
(22-07-2021, 03:15 PM)PsychoStanleyStone Wrote: you can't get us that easy, it's a trick question innit?, i'm assuming this poll is assuming there is a transfer strategy template or someone in the club knows what a transfer strategy looks like and even then if there is an official strategy would we actually get told and sold on it? Last few years seems to be a coach load of rusty ringers on the last day of the transfer window. This is what short term seems to mean but regards a strategy for promotion this season i don't think the club has the vision or integrity to achieve much at all as in attract the players and mould them into a force to be reckoned with, if i thought we did i would vote short term as in promotion not another fiasco, though if it's going to be another fiasco i guess short term wins both ways.
Not a trick question, I think all three strategies are perfectly legitimate. We have broadly used a mixture of 2 and 3 in recent times, with not much success so that's why I was suggesting a different approach. However, there's plenty of teams who've made the other approaches work and got promoted, often managed by Neil Warnock in years past.
It was a trick in that if you vote option 1 you're not allowed to complain about our lack of transfer business though! :D MansfieldRed and Portchester Tricky, feel free to lay into them.
RE: Short Term or Long Term - PsychoStanleyStone - 22-07-2021
thanks Wassy, ultimately i would love a transparent vision for the club that made a profit, galvanised fans and the club and made us really attractive to good players and for us to be the envy of every other football club, this would be long term, however knowing NFFC as we do i plumped for a trend bucking short term, blind hope of fluking a terrific season despite a chaotic plethora of confusing ins and outs of players, managers, ceo's and back room regimes
RE: Short Term or Long Term - MansfieldRed - 22-07-2021
Haha! Thanks Wassy!
I went for both just because I wouldn’t be against selling Worrall if we could get around the £15m reported and if it’s invested wisely which I’m a lot more confident about with the new recruitment team. Centre half is where we are strongest currently and although I don’t want to see Worrall leave, if it meant we had the funds for a play off push I would take that.
RE: Short Term or Long Term - Salvatore Matrecano - 22-07-2021
The biggest problem with the long term strategy is the ambition of our players. They inevitably want to move on to something better if the club doesnt progress. Cash was the perfect example, properly committed to the club but big money and a chance to fulfil his dreams on the table he wanted to go and nobody on here would blame him. Much as Worrall loves Forest I think he may do the same for the right offer (and that isnt Burnley for £2.49 and a free haircut).
So when we get money in we have spent it, mostly on a dream under the myth that with the money we can buy 3 or 4 players (13 or 14 last year) which will take us up. It doesnt work because as you say there is no long term plan. What we should be doing is recruiting now for when for example the possibility we lose Mighten at the end of this coming season. You could argue we did that when we bought Mbe Soh actually, it was the rest of the plan that didnt work out.
Ultimately I prefer long term because it gives more satisfaction to see a team of youngsters who give a sh*t than some ageing mercenaries who know they can never cut it in the PL anyway so whats the point in them trying to get there.
RE: Short Term or Long Term - Shawoddyred - 22-07-2021
(22-07-2021, 05:56 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: The biggest problem with the long term strategy is the ambition of our players. They inevitably want to move on to something better if the club doesnt progress. Cash was the perfect example, properly committed to the club but big money and a chance to fulfil his dreams on the table he wanted to go and nobody on here would blame him. Much as Worrall loves Forest I think he may do the same for the right offer (and that isnt Burnley for £2.49 and a free haircut).
So when we get money in we have spent it, mostly on a dream under the myth that with the money we can buy 3 or 4 players (13 or 14 last year) which will take us up. It doesnt work because as you say there is no long term plan. What we should be doing is recruiting now for when for example the possibility we lose Mighten at the end of this coming season. You could argue we did that when we bought Mbe Soh actually, it was the rest of the plan that didnt work out.
Ultimately I prefer long term because it gives more satisfaction to see a team of youngsters who give a sh*t than some ageing mercenaries who know they can never cut it in the PL anyway so whats the point in them trying to get there.
Fantastic last sentence....
RE: Short Term or Long Term - wassy04 - 23-07-2021
(22-07-2021, 04:39 PM)MansfieldRed Wrote: Haha! Thanks Wassy!
I went for both just because I wouldn’t be against selling Worrall if we could get around the £15m reported and if it’s invested wisely which I’m a lot more confident about with the new recruitment team. Centre half is where we are strongest currently and although I don’t want to see Worrall leave, if it meant we had the funds for a play off push I would take that.
If we got 15m for Worrall I would also sell and use it entirely to fund a youthful rebuild to get a base of a squad. Still not trying to go for promotion but set them up so in a few years the players will all grow together. If you have to keep selling you've got more options and they become easier to replace. Basically like Brentford and Leeds before them did.
RE: Short Term or Long Term - Salvatore Matrecano - 23-07-2021
^ In other word the complete opposite of what we did last year with the Cash money.
RE: Short Term or Long Term - wassy04 - 23-07-2021
(23-07-2021, 09:33 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: ^ In other word the complete opposite of what we did last year with the Cash money.
Yeah basically, although I'm not even sure we spent the Cash money. I thought that just went towards us not failing FFP!
Just be nice to actually have a squad that could afford to lose one or two players and still be competitive. Ironically I actually feel we could cope with losing Worrall as we've invested in his replacement already.
Another point about having a younger squad, players don't get old and want to go home eg Watson who we missed even more than Cash arguably until we signed a load of CMs in Jan. Grabban's deterioration probably falls under this bracket too. Think how much we could've got for Lolley a while back too, now he's only on the fringes of the team.
In my opinion, unless you have someone of transcending level like Antonio was, you sell if you get the right offer, which means way above what they're actually worth.
RE: Short Term or Long Term - PsychoStanleyStone - 23-07-2021
maybe you all do as well but i tend to feel slightly conned generally, in that since Fazza even back to Frank Clark Collymore/Cooper there has often been quite big talk and an illusion of big spending and huge ambition, this is the back drop really for us, that can we really say that the club has started on the front foot in a new season vastly superior to the previous season?
I used to try to convince myself this was the case, but even Psycho had a positive ish pre season with Britt, Antonio and inherited some good players, he comes off the phone for his first signing and Fazza has sold Lascelles and Darlow, he couldn't even have the money to secure Jack Hunt on loan until the end of the season and really ran out of players.
Let's face it the club is weighed down by expectation, though we can't say that about the coming season, when your best players were either loans or let go for free that helps resolve any delusions of grandeur.
RE: Short Term or Long Term - wassy04 - 23-07-2021
(23-07-2021, 01:03 PM)PsychoStanleyStone Wrote: maybe you all do as well but i tend to feel slightly conned generally, in that since Fazza even back to Frank Clark Collymore/Cooper there has often been quite big talk and an illusion of big spending and huge ambition, this is the back drop really for us, that can we really say that the club has started on the front foot in a new season vastly superior to the previous season?
I used to try to convince myself this was the case, but even Psycho had a positive ish pre season with Britt, Antonio and inherited some good players, he comes off the phone for his first signing and Fazza has sold Lascelles and Darlow, he couldn't even have the money to secure Jack Hunt on loan until the end of the season and really ran out of players.
Let's face it the club is weighed down by expectation, though we can't say that about the coming season, when your best players were either loans or let go for free that helps resolve any delusions of grandeur.
Yes we have grossly underachieved in the last 20 years when you compare our historic budgets compared to other similar sized clubs. These have often been used poorly, usually inflated wages and poor signings, combined with a string of dreadful managerial appointments. Feels like every time we've had a decent manager has coincided with trying to recoup the previous losses and then when we have money again we appoint Megson or Joe Kinnear!