(13-09-2020, 11:11 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:

(13-09-2020, 10:33 AM)Sabricadabra Wrote: The problem with including last season in the analysis is Sabri met with EM after the disastrous season end. They discussed what had gone wrong, what needed to change, and a plan for the way forward. EM doesn’t strike me as a man who, after clear the air talks where a decision was arrived at, suddenly changes his mind because he’s still holding on to resentment which he should have aired in the clear the air talks.

A line was drawn in August. Sabri could have been sacked, but he was backed with the new signings he wanted instead. He will be given less time than a new man, and a run of defeats won’t be acceptable, but he will be given time. Otherwise EM will look like a weak and erratic leader.

Except that EM has form for this sort of thing when its not working. Oscar Garcia lasted for 12 games and 2 months at Oly before Martins took over. A couple years before him Marco Silva memorably lasted for all of 2 matches before the big guy pulled the trigger.

(13-09-2020, 12:19 PM)Sabricadabra Wrote:

(13-09-2020, 11:11 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:

(13-09-2020, 10:33 AM)Sabricadabra Wrote: The problem with including last season in the analysis is Sabri met with EM after the disastrous season end. They discussed what had gone wrong, what needed to change, and a plan for the way forward. EM doesn’t strike me as a man who, after clear the air talks where a decision was arrived at, suddenly changes his mind because he’s still holding on to resentment which he should have aired in the clear the air talks.

A line was drawn in August. Sabri could have been sacked, but he was backed with the new signings he wanted instead. He will be given less time than a new man, and a run of defeats won’t be acceptable, but he will be given time. Otherwise EM will look like a weak and erratic leader.

Except that EM has form for this sort of thing when its not working. Oscar Garcia lasted for 12 games and 2 months at Oly before Martins took over. A couple years before him Marco Silva memorably lasted for all of 2 matches before the big guy pulled the trigger.

I’ll be really annoyed if Sabri is sacked after 2 games. I’ll be demanding a full refund on my season ticket.

(13-09-2020, 11:31 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: It wasn't Marco Silva. Silva quit his job at Olympiakos and he won the league.

(13-09-2020, 11:04 AM)Karanka red Wrote:

(13-09-2020, 10:17 AM)Jacksbadhobbits Wrote:

(13-09-2020, 09:07 AM)Karanka red Wrote:

(13-09-2020, 08:51 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: I remain on the fence as I was yesterday but think some of the over reaction, not on here but social media in general is wearily predictable. This thread started with most people agreeing the thing we were most positive about was starting the season with the same manager as last. Now a sizeable number want to chuck that out after one game. I dont get where the lost the dressing room notion has come from either if that is something that even happens in football.

However its not all rosy which is why I wasn't convinced to begin with. I dont think there has been a slump. Since Feb as you and others say KR, he has played mostly the same way, just before then we were getting away with results. When Sabri’s system works we say beautiful counter attacking football. But all too often it has been last ditch defending followed by a punt to Cash/Lolley/Ameobi who created a goal out of nothing that scraped us a point. Think we need to control the ball far better in posession and learn how to boss a game again. Sabri’s system also relies heavily on pace on the break which is something the summer recruitment hasnt addressed.

I will never call for his head because I don’t think a managerial change solves anything but that results do need to improve quickly to appease our owner is pretty obvious.

It depends on what you quantify as a slump SM, in the 31 games after Leeds we had amassed 54 points in 31 games scoring 43 and conceding 31, PPG 1.72 and in the 17 league and cup games since we have amassed 16 points scoring less than a goal a game in 15 goals and conceding 23 PPG exactly 1, That to me suggests a big slump in form not only in points gained, goals scored and goals conceded. 

That is very difficult to gloss up. 1 PPG gets you relegated.

After one league game this season does that run of form which was interrupted by 3 months enforced lay off, equate to ripping everything up sacking the manager and starting again. We have tried that quite a few times and I don't remember it working

They are the facts, pre lay off after Leeds we were very poor, the last game we were tonked at home to Millwall, the facts are the facts which ever way you read them. That is Sabri's current results, post lockdown we have been terrible and that includes 10 league games with a small gap in the middle, we score 1 goal in the mini pre season also if you want to chuck those in too. 

Sabri hasn't changed tactics in the first 2 games that I can see, you concede the ball to the opposition gives them far more opportunity to score goals and gives us far less opportunity to create. Those statistics concur with that. Adapted approach required that shows us that we can keep the football, you cannot concede when you have the ball.

(13-09-2020, 12:33 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:

(13-09-2020, 11:04 AM)Karanka red Wrote:

(13-09-2020, 10:17 AM)Jacksbadhobbits Wrote:

(13-09-2020, 09:07 AM)Karanka red Wrote:

(13-09-2020, 08:51 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: I remain on the fence as I was yesterday but think some of the over reaction, not on here but social media in general is wearily predictable. This thread started with most people agreeing the thing we were most positive about was starting the season with the same manager as last. Now a sizeable number want to chuck that out after one game. I dont get where the lost the dressing room notion has come from either if that is something that even happens in football.

However its not all rosy which is why I wasn't convinced to begin with. I dont think there has been a slump. Since Feb as you and others say KR, he has played mostly the same way, just before then we were getting away with results. When Sabri’s system works we say beautiful counter attacking football. But all too often it has been last ditch defending followed by a punt to Cash/Lolley/Ameobi who created a goal out of nothing that scraped us a point. Think we need to control the ball far better in posession and learn how to boss a game again. Sabri’s system also relies heavily on pace on the break which is something the summer recruitment hasnt addressed.

I will never call for his head because I don’t think a managerial change solves anything but that results do need to improve quickly to appease our owner is pretty obvious.

It depends on what you quantify as a slump SM, in the 31 games after Leeds we had amassed 54 points in 31 games scoring 43 and conceding 31, PPG 1.72 and in the 17 league and cup games since we have amassed 16 points scoring less than a goal a game in 15 goals and conceding 23 PPG exactly 1, That to me suggests a big slump in form not only in points gained, goals scored and goals conceded. 

That is very difficult to gloss up. 1 PPG gets you relegated.

After one league game this season does that run of form which was interrupted by 3 months enforced lay off, equate to ripping everything up sacking the manager and starting again. We have tried that quite a few times and I don't remember it working

They are the facts, pre lay off after Leeds we were very poor, the last game we were tonked at home to Millwall, the facts are the facts which ever way you read them. That is Sabri's current results, post lockdown we have been terrible and that includes 10 league games with a small gap in the middle, we score 1 goal in the mini pre season also if you want to chuck those in too. 

Sabri hasn't changed tactics in the first 2 games that I can see, you concede the ball to the opposition gives them far more opportunity to score goals and gives us far less opportunity to create. Those statistics concur with that. Adapted approach required that shows us that we can keep the football, you cannot concede when you have the ball.

Where Forest conceded 1st in 20+ games last season, I think they only won 2.

I find that characteristic alarming.

SA.

(13-09-2020, 12:19 PM)Sabricadabra Wrote:

(13-09-2020, 11:11 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:

(13-09-2020, 10:33 AM)Sabricadabra Wrote: The problem with including last season in the analysis is Sabri met with EM after the disastrous season end. They discussed what had gone wrong, what needed to change, and a plan for the way forward. EM doesn’t strike me as a man who, after clear the air talks where a decision was arrived at, suddenly changes his mind because he’s still holding on to resentment which he should have aired in the clear the air talks.

A line was drawn in August. Sabri could have been sacked, but he was backed with the new signings he wanted instead. He will be given less time than a new man, and a run of defeats won’t be acceptable, but he will be given time. Otherwise EM will look like a weak and erratic leader.

Except that EM has form for this sort of thing when its not working. Oscar Garcia lasted for 12 games and 2 months at Oly before Martins took over. A couple years before him Marco Silva memorably lasted for all of 2 matches before the big guy pulled the trigger.

I’ll be really annoyed if Sabri is sacked after 2 games. I’ll be demanding a full refund on my season ticket.

(13-09-2020, 12:43 PM)Sabricadabra Wrote: Blaming the style of play is wide of the mark.
If it’s merely a case of attacking teams more why have we had 21 years outside the top league?
Why didn’t the other managers realise that all you need to do is attack teams and the results follow?
How did Sabri achieve our 4th best finish in those 21 years?
Why haven’t the other managers, who presumably played the ‘correct’ style of football done as well as Sabri?

It isn’t that simple.

The ‘style of play’ is one of those excuses which fans use to justify wanting rid of a manager.
Sabri - too defensive
MoN - too hoofball and outdated
Karanka - too much boring possession
Warburton - too gung ho and naive
Etc etc

None of them were sacked because of their style of play. Results are everything.
If Sabri is replaced it will be because of results, not style of play.