(31-08-2023, 04:50 PM)JoeWorrallsBrain Wrote: Well, that was not only disappointing, it was depressing.  We're going to play Burnley again on Sept 18 and they will be full of confidence - the worst possible outcome of this game!  We desperately need a league win at Burnley to believe we're going to have any comfort surviving this season.

My takes on this one:

• Yes, the big clubs play their 2nd tier players in early Cup matches because they can - they have quality in their depth.  Yes, the lower division clubs play their 2nd tier against Premier League opponents because they are basically throwing in the towel in favour of preserving their best chances (fresh players) in their own division.  We are between these extremes.  We don't have the luxury of throwing out our 2nd tier against anyone, nor any reason to play differently that how we would (or should) in the Premiership.  Cooper put out a lineup like he doesn't care about Cup matches.  If so, why not just default the match, and save the fans the pain?
  
• Woods is a sub, not a starter, and in particular he's really only an effective sub against defenders he can easily beat in the air.  Let's never use him as a starter again, unless absolutely necessary.
  
• Neco Williams is MUCH more effective on the right side rather than the left.  Put him where he plays best.  It's not like there is a dominant player on the right who he would have to displace.
  
• Giving up 65%+ possession to Premier League clubs, even the poorest one, invites disaster.  If we are totally overmatched on talent against a top club, I guess it requires consideration as a tactic of last resort.  However, it clearly is Cooper's tactic of first resort, even against weaker lineups.  It is a mistake.  We can't count on the good fortune it took to survive those tactics last year.
  

• We are missing Henderson badly.
  

It's still early, and this was a Cup loss that we were going to suffer at some point anyway, so all is not lost.  But Cooper needs to change his thinking, or by the time we're even 10 games into the league we'll be fighting uphill for survival.

(31-08-2023, 05:27 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Don’t get this changes make a difference argument.
The squad as a whole train together and play together all week. They arent strangers for goodness sake. Its the whole point of having a squad and the 30 players everyone said we needed.
If the so called B team dont play well it means they aren’t good enough and probably shouldn’t be here

(31-08-2023, 04:54 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 04:50 PM)JoeWorrallsBrain Wrote: Well, that was not only disappointing, it was depressing.  We're going to play Burnley again on Sept 18 and they will be full of confidence - the worst possible outcome of this game!  We desperately need a league win at Burnley to believe we're going to have any comfort surviving this season.

My takes on this one:

• Yes, the big clubs play their 2nd tier players in early Cup matches because they can - they have quality in their depth.  Yes, the lower division clubs play their 2nd tier against Premier League opponents because they are basically throwing in the towel in favour of preserving their best chances (fresh players) in their own division.  We are between these extremes.  We don't have the luxury of throwing out our 2nd tier against anyone, nor any reason to play differently that how we would (or should) in the Premiership.  Cooper put out a lineup like he doesn't care about Cup matches.  If so, why not just default the match, and save the fans the pain?
  
• Woods is a sub, not a starter, and in particular he's really only an effective sub against defenders he can easily beat in the air.  Let's never use him as a starter again, unless absolutely necessary.
  
• Neco Williams is MUCH more effective on the right side rather than the left.  Put him where he plays best.  It's not like there is a dominant player on the right who he would have to displace.
  
• Giving up 65%+ possession to Premier League clubs, even the poorest one, invites disaster.  If we are totally overmatched on talent against a top club, I guess it requires consideration as a tactic of last resort.  However, it clearly is Cooper's tactic of first resort, even against weaker lineups.  It is a mistake.  We can't count on the good fortune it took to survive those tactics last year.
  

• We are missing Henderson badly.
  

It's still early, and this was a Cup loss that we were going to suffer at some point anyway, so all is not lost.  But Cooper needs to change his thinking, or by the time we're even 10 games into the league we'll be fighting uphill for survival.

- You're not allowed to default a game, obviously. Burnley also made 10 changes so they did the same thing anyway. - We would also be hit with a massive fine if we tried to hand the game over. Also, would we have got to the semi-finals last season, if we had thrown the first game?
- His name is Chris Wood not Woods, that's a golfer. Also the goal keeper who helped us to win our first League Cup
- Based on his recent performances on the left he couldn't be less effective...Not sure why Toffolo didn't start TBH
- What impact would Henderson have had on this or any game compared to Turner? Henderson is not our player, never has been!! You could say we are missing Peter Shilton, Hans Van Brueklen, Mark Crossley, Doris De Vries, Brice Samba also, but that won't change anything.

(31-08-2023, 05:57 PM)Tricky Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 04:54 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 04:50 PM)JoeWorrallsBrain Wrote: Well, that was not only disappointing, it was depressing.  We're going to play Burnley again on Sept 18 and they will be full of confidence - the worst possible outcome of this game!  We desperately need a league win at Burnley to believe we're going to have any comfort surviving this season.

My takes on this one:

• Yes, the big clubs play their 2nd tier players in early Cup matches because they can - they have quality in their depth.  Yes, the lower division clubs play their 2nd tier against Premier League opponents because they are basically throwing in the towel in favour of preserving their best chances (fresh players) in their own division.  We are between these extremes.  We don't have the luxury of throwing out our 2nd tier against anyone, nor any reason to play differently that how we would (or should) in the Premiership.  Cooper put out a lineup like he doesn't care about Cup matches.  If so, why not just default the match, and save the fans the pain?
  
• Woods is a sub, not a starter, and in particular he's really only an effective sub against defenders he can easily beat in the air.  Let's never use him as a starter again, unless absolutely necessary.
  
• Neco Williams is MUCH more effective on the right side rather than the left.  Put him where he plays best.  It's not like there is a dominant player on the right who he would have to displace.
  
• Giving up 65%+ possession to Premier League clubs, even the poorest one, invites disaster.  If we are totally overmatched on talent against a top club, I guess it requires consideration as a tactic of last resort.  However, it clearly is Cooper's tactic of first resort, even against weaker lineups.  It is a mistake.  We can't count on the good fortune it took to survive those tactics last year.
  

• We are missing Henderson badly.
  

It's still early, and this was a Cup loss that we were going to suffer at some point anyway, so all is not lost.  But Cooper needs to change his thinking, or by the time we're even 10 games into the league we'll be fighting uphill for survival.

- You're not allowed to default a game, obviously. Burnley also made 10 changes so they did the same thing anyway. - We would also be hit with a massive fine if we tried to hand the game over. Also, would we have got to the semi-finals last season, if we had thrown the first game?
- His name is Chris Wood not Woods, that's a golfer. Also the goal keeper who helped us to win our first League Cup
- Based on his recent performances on the left he couldn't be less effective...Not sure why Toffolo didn't start TBH
- What impact would Henderson have had on this or any game compared to Turner? Henderson is not our player, never has been!! You could say we are missing Peter Shilton, Hans Van Brueklen, Mark Crossley, Doris De Vries, Brice Samba also, but that won't change anything.