(31-08-2023, 01:24 PM)HebdenRed Wrote: It was S**t. We know it and coops knows it.

Don’t think I’ve heard him as critical as this with Radio Nottm

(31-08-2023, 02:21 PM)Mist From The Trent Wrote: Playing with a back 3 and 3 center mids means that the wing backs have to get forward to support the attacking players. We sit so deep it's so hard to get them forward. Felt sorry for Wood and Elanga last night.

(31-08-2023, 02:23 PM)Marinakis Red Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 02:21 PM)Mist From The Trent Wrote: Playing with a back 3 and 3 center mids means that the wing backs have to get forward to support the attacking players. We sit so deep it's so hard to get them forward. Felt sorry for Wood and Elanga last night.

Totally agree, we have to ensure it is 352 and not 532 so we can get higher up the pitch and our wing backs into dangerous areas.

(31-08-2023, 01:30 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 01:24 PM)HebdenRed Wrote: It was S**t. We know it and coops knows it.

Don’t think I’ve heard him as critical as this with Radio Nottm

Personally I think he's naive to expect to completely change the side/formation like he did and not expect to see what happened. He brought it on himself. We werent playing a lower league team who could simply be brushed aside. It was always going to be a test.

(31-08-2023, 02:49 PM)HebdenRed Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 01:30 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 01:24 PM)HebdenRed Wrote: It was S**t. We know it and coops knows it.

Don’t think I’ve heard him as critical as this with Radio Nottm

Personally I think he's naive to expect to completely change the side/formation like he did and not expect to see what happened. He brought it on himself. We werent playing a lower league team who could simply be brushed aside. It was always going to be a test.

I do agree. The point I was making is that regardless of the number of changes he sounded shocked that we couldn’t do the basics right. Passing, set pieces, holding onto the ball - all prerequisites of a footballer representing a team at our level.

(31-08-2023, 03:08 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 02:49 PM)HebdenRed Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 01:30 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 01:24 PM)HebdenRed Wrote: It was S**t. We know it and coops knows it.

Don’t think I’ve heard him as critical as this with Radio Nottm

Personally I think he's naive to expect to completely change the side/formation like he did and not expect to see what happened. He brought it on himself. We werent playing a lower league team who could simply be brushed aside. It was always going to be a test.

I do agree. The point I was making is that regardless of the number of changes he sounded shocked that we couldn’t do the basics right. Passing, set pieces, holding onto the ball - all prerequisites of a footballer representing a team at our level.

Yep. The players need to understand why that happened. It's simply not good enough from them. But let's be realistic, if Cooper had played the 'first team' we would've probably won comfortably.

(31-08-2023, 03:12 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 03:08 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 02:49 PM)HebdenRed Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 01:30 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 01:24 PM)HebdenRed Wrote: It was S**t. We know it and coops knows it.

Don’t think I’ve heard him as critical as this with Radio Nottm

Personally I think he's naive to expect to completely change the side/formation like he did and not expect to see what happened. He brought it on himself. We werent playing a lower league team who could simply be brushed aside. It was always going to be a test.

I do agree. The point I was making is that regardless of the number of changes he sounded shocked that we couldn’t do the basics right. Passing, set pieces, holding onto the ball - all prerequisites of a footballer representing a team at our level.

Yep. The players need to understand why that happened. It's simply not good enough from them. But let's be realistic, if Cooper had played the 'first team' we would've probably won comfortably.

I find it comical when a manager changes 3 quarters of his team and then complains about a poor performance. It's not just Cooper, it's a lot of other top division managers too. What would this side have had on the training ground to prepare, 2 days? How can you possibly work on the sets plays and patterns in that time. And two players were making their debut. And Elanga starting his first game.

(31-08-2023, 03:47 PM)wassy04 Wrote: In defence of Cooper pretty much every team changed most of their first team including the lower league sides. Teams just don't take the League Cup seriously in the first few rounds, prioritise the Chelsea game and avoiding injuries.

Now whether you think that's the right choice is another matter. I know plenty of people were asking to see the likes of Elanga and Santos and get them game time. Imagine starting Taiwo and he got injured, he'd have been slaughtered. Personally I think play every game to win so you play most of your first team but he did say he didn't want to make tons of changes but there were a few injuries and fatigue.

The majority of teams/managers will do exactly this including Burnley who did the same. Perhaps if we'd gotten all our business done earlier the backups would've been a bit better!

(31-08-2023, 03:57 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(31-08-2023, 03:47 PM)wassy04 Wrote: In defence of Cooper pretty much every team changed most of their first team including the lower league sides. Teams just don't take the League Cup seriously in the first few rounds, prioritise the Chelsea game and avoiding injuries.

Now whether you think that's the right choice is another matter. I know plenty of people were asking to see the likes of Elanga and Santos and get them game time. Imagine starting Taiwo and he got injured, he'd have been slaughtered. Personally I think play every game to win so you play most of your first team but he did say he didn't want to make tons of changes but there were a few injuries and fatigue.

The majority of teams/managers will do exactly this including Burnley who did the same. Perhaps if we'd gotten all our business done earlier the backups would've been a bit better!

Wassy, the debate has started because of the critical comments made by Cooper. Yes, other sides change too, but would their manager rinse them after an abject performance? As Tricky pointed out, the team was a group of players completely green. And i say again, we weren't playing a Lincoln City or a Morcombe (or a Derby), this was a premier league side we were playing. Arteta played a 2nd string against us in the cup two years ago and we despatched them. I remember he was critical at the time but we were flying and deserved a bit more respect.

• Yes, the big clubs play their 2nd tier players in early Cup matches because they can - they have quality in their depth.  Yes, the lower division clubs play their 2nd tier against Premier League opponents because they are basically throwing in the towel in favour of preserving their best chances (fresh players) in their own division.  We are between these extremes.  We don't have the luxury of throwing out our 2nd tier against anyone, nor any reason to play differently that how we would (or should) in the Premiership.  Cooper put out a lineup like he doesn't care about Cup matches.  If so, why not just default the match, and save the fans the pain?
  
• Woods is a sub, not a starter, and in particular he's really only an effective sub against defenders he can easily beat in the air.  Let's never use him as a starter again, unless absolutely necessary.
  
• Neco Williams is MUCH more effective on the right side rather than the left.  Put him where he plays best.  It's not like there is a dominant player on the right who he would have to displace.
  
• Giving up 65%+ possession to Premier League clubs, even the poorest one, invites disaster.  If we are totally overmatched on talent against a top club, I guess it requires consideration as a tactic of last resort.  However, it clearly is Cooper's tactic of first resort, even against weaker lineups.  It is a mistake.  We can't count on the good fortune it took to survive those tactics last year.
  

• We are missing Henderson badly.