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RE: Stevie Cooper - Forest1970 - 25-03-2023
(25-03-2023, 09:41 AM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:(25-03-2023, 09:33 AM)Marco Polo Wrote: There is no need to blame anyone - we’re doing exactly what we expected to do
Don't think we expected to take 2 points from the last 18 and be bottom of the current form table (except for Palace) at such a crucial point of the season.
I get your point though, many expected a relegation fight and that is what we have but for me it's more about the way we are heading, our current form and our awful performances especially away from home.
Also Steve's job this season was to establish us in the PL, we shouldn't lose sight of that.
And as you have said before Sniffer we in reality wasn't really meant to get promoted first time round but we did and its proving a bit different to the Championship and with everything crossed we'll survive and then get ready for next season but only time will tell.
RE: Stevie Cooper - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 25-03-2023
I don't think it's wrong to say that last season when Steve took over his job was to steer us away from the relegation zone and into mid table. Well he massively overachieved and managed to get us promoted and he rightly got all the plaudits that came his way.
This season his job was to establish us in the PL by being a mid table side and then to push on again even more next season. I think that he is perhaps underachieving in that at the moment and there is currently a chance that this season will end in relegation.
I am unsure what will come his way if we go down as it was definitely not part of the plan in the summer.
RE: Stevie Cooper - Reds73 - 25-03-2023
(25-03-2023, 10:11 AM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote: I don't think it's wrong to say that last season when Steve took over his job was to steer us away from the relegation zone and into mid table. Well he massively overachieved and managed to get us promoted and he rightly got all the plaudits that came his way.
This season his job was to establish us in the PL by being a mid table side and then to push on again even more next season. I think that he is perhaps underachieving in that at the moment and there is currently a chance that this season will end in relegation.
I am unsure what will come his way if we go down as it was definitely not part of the plan in the summer.
What do you think will come his way if we finish 17th and stay up ?
If mid table was the expectation, then I think that’s unrealistic.
Forget the money spent, no club has ever had to sign a completely new squad and get that squad to have to gel whilst also trying to pick up enough points.
I’m not sure there is a manager anywhere who could have done any better.
This is not a computer game, it’s bloody hard to gel half a dozen new players, never mind 20 plus players
RE: Stevie Cooper - Jacksbadhobbits - 26-03-2023
(25-03-2023, 01:26 PM)Reds73 Wrote:(25-03-2023, 10:11 AM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote: I don't think it's wrong to say that last season when Steve took over his job was to steer us away from the relegation zone and into mid table. Well he massively overachieved and managed to get us promoted and he rightly got all the plaudits that came his way.
This season his job was to establish us in the PL by being a mid table side and then to push on again even more next season. I think that he is perhaps underachieving in that at the moment and there is currently a chance that this season will end in relegation.
I am unsure what will come his way if we go down as it was definitely not part of the plan in the summer.
What do you think will come his way if we finish 17th and stay up ?
If mid table was the expectation, then I think that’s unrealistic.
Forget the money spent, no club has ever had to sign a completely new squad and get that squad to have to gel whilst also trying to pick up enough points.
I’m not sure there is a manager anywhere who could have done any better.
This is not a computer game, it’s bloody hard to gel half a dozen new players, never mind 20 plus players
Agree 100%. Mid table was not realistic. Keeping us up was the realistic goal and slowly building upon that. Anybody who expected more was living in fantasy land.
RE: Stevie Cooper - nffc93 - 26-03-2023
If Cooper keeps us up he'll have done an amazing job.. To expect mid table finish with 30 odd new players, something to my knowledge hasn't been done would be a minor miracle.
RE: Stevie Cooper - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 26-03-2023
Perhaps I should have used the term consolidate our PL status instead of using the words mid table.
RE: Stevie Cooper - zicorice - 26-03-2023
I think patches like the recent form were always a possibility - dare I say likelihood- this season. Last time we pulled out of it and moved up the league in part due to certain players returning/ settling in. (Yates, Aurier, Boly, Lodi and Taiwo in particular). I firmly believe that we will see improvements over the next 3 games. Wolves, Dirtyleeds and Villa as at least some of those players return and hopefully Niakhate, having had more game time can be something like the player he was in the somewhat easier less physical German league (Bayern aside).
Am I worried? Of course but if we finish 17th, it will be an achievement equal to anything our managers have achieved since Cloughie.
The really big question though. Could another manager do any better? I genuinely don't think so. Sacking Cooper would just make us more likely to go down.
RE: Stevie Cooper - tugger2018 - 26-03-2023
Let’s not blame Cooper maybe if we had planned and recruited a lot better and bought say 15 not 30 at twice the price we had and not such obvious poor signings ie Dennis, wood, biancone, Henderson, Tofolo, Hennessy, Lingard etc etc
cooper would of had a smaller better quality squad with a much better bond and chance of saying up
RE: Stevie Cooper - zicorice - 26-03-2023
(26-03-2023, 08:48 PM)tugger2018 Wrote: Let’s not blame Cooper maybe if we had planned and recruited a lot better and bought say 15 not 30 at twice the price we had and not such obvious poor signings ie Dennis, wood, biancone, Henderson, Tofolo, Hennessy, Lingard etc etc
cooper would of had a smaller better quality squad with a much better bond and chance of saying up
Problem is, with 15 signings, plus the ones we kept sounds great but at one point (might have been West Ham game?) We had 13 players unavailable due to injury. No Guarantee the injuries wouldn't have still piled up then we'd be looking at players like Taylor or Youngsters clearly not ready coming in. 3 (or was it 4?) Of our signings have been keepers. 2 or 3 were loaned out immediately with a view to future so what's that? 23 outfield players?
I don't think Biancone did much wrong. Would certainly have got game time if he hadn't have got injured.
Combination of factors have conspired against us, plus some dismal performances at this level, however - and this is the most salient point for me - we are still in the fight and it's in our own hands. Premier class players don't grow on trees.
Our average outlay was less than £5 million per player. With 2 freebies (Aurier and Kouyate) plus 2 cheap CBs (Boly and Felipe) the only ones to have settled in almost immediately (Bolys debut aside). MGW at £25 million took some time, but looks very good Taiwo was starting to look OK before another bloody injury. Dennis starting to show us there's a player in him lately. Freulers had a very decent spell which coincided with our best form of the season. Lodi looks class, but took a while.
Granted, many of the rest need to step up-and fast. I'm hoping for much more from Niakhate, Mangala the 2 Brazilian lads, Shelby and a return to form for Freuler, MGW and whoever plays up top with him and Jonno. If this happens we'll be fine if not....well let's just pray it does.
RE: Stevie Cooper - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 27-03-2023
(26-03-2023, 08:48 PM)tugger2018 Wrote: Let’s not blame Cooper maybe if we had planned and recruited a lot better and bought say 15 not 30 at twice the price we had and not such obvious poor signings ie Dennis, wood, Biancone, Henderson, Tofolo, Hennessy, Lingard etc etc
cooper would of had a smaller better quality squad with a much better bond and chance of saying up
You do realise that Cooper is a huge part of recruitment right?
RE: Stevie Cooper - northeastred - 27-03-2023
(27-03-2023, 07:30 AM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:(26-03-2023, 08:48 PM)tugger2018 Wrote: Let’s not blame Cooper maybe if we had planned and recruited a lot better and bought say 15 not 30 at twice the price we had and not such obvious poor signings ie Dennis, wood, Biancone, Henderson, Tofolo, Hennessy, Lingard etc etc
cooper would of had a smaller better quality squad with a much better bond and chance of saying up
You do realise that Cooper is a huge part of recruitment right?
Pretty sure he gets final say, even when he did press conferences in the summer and jan when we had already signed 20 plus he kept saying we need more..
RE: Stevie Cooper - wassy04 - 27-03-2023
(27-03-2023, 09:31 AM)northeastred Wrote:(27-03-2023, 07:30 AM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:(26-03-2023, 08:48 PM)tugger2018 Wrote: Let’s not blame Cooper maybe if we had planned and recruited a lot better and bought say 15 not 30 at twice the price we had and not such obvious poor signings ie Dennis, wood, Biancone, Henderson, Tofolo, Hennessy, Lingard etc etc
cooper would of had a smaller better quality squad with a much better bond and chance of saying up
You do realise that Cooper is a huge part of recruitment right?
Pretty sure he gets final say, even when he did press conferences in the summer and jan when we had already signed 20 plus he kept saying we need more..
What he says and what he actually controls are very different. It's obviously very clear there were certain players he did not want that signed in the summer eg Dennis.
We do have a Sporting Director now in case everyone forgot, this is Giralidi's job.
The idea is they work in a tandem (I presume), certainly that's the most efficient approach. You want the manager on board as they are the person that will pick the players so no point signing someone (Dennis) that the manager clearly doesn't want.
Then you might get signings like Lingard which while I'm sure Steve wasn't the one driving it, he's not going to be complaining when a signing like that falls into his lap. Although he was clearly driving the signing of MGW (which has gone well overall so far I'd say) and they do play the same position... You wonder if Lingard would've done better if MGW wasn't here too.