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RE: If I Was In Hughton's Shoes - Sabricadabra - 16-03-2021
(16-03-2021, 09:48 AM)Jean_claude_killy Wrote:(16-03-2021, 09:32 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:(16-03-2021, 08:30 AM)Sabricadabra Wrote: We still need 10 points to be safe, 15 to be completely sure. It’s no time to experiment yet.
We were counting our chickens when we only needed 4 points from the last 6 games at the end of last season. Let’s not make a similar mistake this time.
Not sure we going to need that many points.
But agree that to tinker with the team now is still 4 or 5 games too soon.
Exactly, get the points and then give the likes of Soh and Mighten an extended run out
It might be fewer, but with a couple of wins and three draws, which will put us on 50, he can begin to experiment.
RE: If I Was In Hughton's Shoes - PsychoStanleyStone - 16-03-2021
(16-03-2021, 03:06 PM)Sabricadabra Wrote:(16-03-2021, 09:48 AM)Jean_claude_killy Wrote:(16-03-2021, 09:32 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:(16-03-2021, 08:30 AM)Sabricadabra Wrote: We still need 10 points to be safe, 15 to be completely sure. It’s no time to experiment yet.
We were counting our chickens when we only needed 4 points from the last 6 games at the end of last season. Let’s not make a similar mistake this time.
Not sure we going to need that many points.
But agree that to tinker with the team now is still 4 or 5 games too soon.
Exactly, get the points and then give the likes of Soh and Mighten an extended run out
It might be fewer, but with a couple of wins and three draws, which will put us on 50, he can begin to experiment.
what you lot on about?
it's about being able to get Forest to win games, doing things that improve our chances of scoring, there are things that are obvious that improve your chances, i don't think 'experimentation' has anything to do with preparation, tactics and winning games
we have 2 points from the last 4 games, tomorrow we play Norwich, then Brentford and then Cardiff both away
carry on as we have been we lose all 3
don't get me wrong, experimenting sounds exciting, but Chris Hughton does not do exciting so it's not gonna happen
the fact is though, a manager should make dramatic and subtle changes during a game, but because everything stays the same this gives a tactical advantage to the opposition, however good our boys play, i think they are giving everything, CH expects them to give everything for the whole game, but it will be the same game plan and as the game progresses the more likely we are to concede
Anyway i think drastic tactical and personnel changes are required, it's not really experimentation it's knowing we go into games identically with consistency we lose the next 3 games, we probably lose them anyway so do some differant stuff Chris
The song will remain the same
You lot are saying continue the sameness, which against the next few teams is unlikely to yield anything at all
RE: If I Was In Hughton's Shoes - Paplane - 16-03-2021
(16-03-2021, 03:00 PM)wassy04 Wrote:(16-03-2021, 02:48 PM)Paplane Wrote:(16-03-2021, 02:21 PM)wassy04 Wrote:(16-03-2021, 02:19 PM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: Plus like I have said before I think that EM and Mendes between them will get a better fee for Carvalho then many of us think.
Maybe but would have to be double figures to really have an impact given we still owe the remainder of his initial fee in amortisation.
I was under the impression that we purchased Carvalho on hp arrangement at something like £3m per year for 5 years. If that's the case then might it be that he's amortised at that, £3m a year maybe, rather than what's left of the £13m, on the basis that he isnt actually a full 5 year asset, just a series of 5 one year assets which get written off each year. So if we sell him, we'd just get part of the fee, the balance of the £13m would go directly to Benfica and not through our books. If you get what I mean. Or is that a load of tosh? Probably is, I cant even explain it properly.
Yeah I think it's a load of tosh haha. Or what you're suggesting essentially amount to the same thing.
Basically say we paid 13m, and sold him for 6m, we have to take a loss of 7m at some point. We will have probably so far taken 5m cost in the account, so say we sold him for 6m we'd still owe another 1m in accounting terms. We have to pay for it at some point! So if you sell him you actually bring forward the cost, so not worth it unless it at least breaks even for FFP purposes.
Obviously cash flow and actual income is different and I'm sure the owners will want some money to support operating costs.
I was thinking maybe we wouldn't take the loss because his new club would write a cheque of £6m straight to Benfica who would then cancel our hp payments. They then have recovered their full £13m and he's cost us 3 years at £3m. So we never owned a £13m asset, just a series of £3m(ish) assets. But that cant be right because that would make Benfica a part owner of his registration which I'm sure isn't allowed. As you say, tosh. :D
RE: If I Was In Hughton's Shoes - Paplane - 16-03-2021
So best case scenario then is that he gets loaned out for the remainder of his contract, bringing us a loan fee in which goes some way to offsetting his amortisation & salary. It's proably more expensive long term but provides wriggle room for other players short term.
It's no surprise the CFO left. Can you imagine sorting this kind of stuff out for all the players we've had in and out recently and then trying to forecast accounts and make future plans.
RE: If I Was In Hughton's Shoes - wassy04 - 16-03-2021
(16-03-2021, 03:43 PM)Paplane Wrote:(16-03-2021, 03:00 PM)wassy04 Wrote:(16-03-2021, 02:48 PM)Paplane Wrote:(16-03-2021, 02:21 PM)wassy04 Wrote:(16-03-2021, 02:19 PM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: Plus like I have said before I think that EM and Mendes between them will get a better fee for Carvalho then many of us think.
Maybe but would have to be double figures to really have an impact given we still owe the remainder of his initial fee in amortisation.
I was under the impression that we purchased Carvalho on hp arrangement at something like £3m per year for 5 years. If that's the case then might it be that he's amortised at that, £3m a year maybe, rather than what's left of the £13m, on the basis that he isnt actually a full 5 year asset, just a series of 5 one year assets which get written off each year. So if we sell him, we'd just get part of the fee, the balance of the £13m would go directly to Benfica and not through our books. If you get what I mean. Or is that a load of tosh? Probably is, I cant even explain it properly.
Yeah I think it's a load of tosh haha. Or what you're suggesting essentially amount to the same thing.
Basically say we paid 13m, and sold him for 6m, we have to take a loss of 7m at some point. We will have probably so far taken 5m cost in the account, so say we sold him for 6m we'd still owe another 1m in accounting terms. We have to pay for it at some point! So if you sell him you actually bring forward the cost, so not worth it unless it at least breaks even for FFP purposes.
Obviously cash flow and actual income is different and I'm sure the owners will want some money to support operating costs.
I was thinking maybe we wouldn't take the loss because his new club would write a cheque of £6m straight to Benfica who would then cancel our hp payments. They then have recovered their full £13m and he's cost us 3 years at £3m. So we never owned a £13m asset, just a series of £3m(ish) assets. But that cant be right because that would make Benfica a part owner of his registration which I'm sure isn't allowed. As you say, tosh. :D
Haha you're sort of right but it amounts to the same thing. We'd end up with FFP net 0 approx in that scenario so same logic. Basically selling him would help in the sense it'd get rid of the rest of the amortised cost.
So would maybe save 3m odd towards FFP per year compared to doing nothing. Reds73 was correct there actually, apologies.
RE: If I Was In Hughton's Shoes - Knocker West - 16-03-2021
(16-03-2021, 03:43 PM)Paplane Wrote: I was thinking maybe we wouldn't take the loss because his new club would write a cheque of £6m straight to Benfica who would then cancel our hp payments.
That is pretty much what the club is hoping will happen with Almeira, although I am very skeptical that they'd pay anything remotely like that at the moment, he was on the bench again this weekend, with the manager preferring Ager Aketxe
Hopefully in the remaining games he can step up & avoid becoming a rich mans version of Zach Clough.
RE: If I Was In Hughton's Shoes - wassy04 - 16-03-2021
(16-03-2021, 03:46 PM)Paplane Wrote: So best case scenario then is that he gets loaned out for the remainder of his contract, bringing us a loan fee in which goes some way to offsetting his amortisation & salary. It's proably more expensive long term but provides wriggle room for other players short term.
It's no surprise the CFO left. Can you imagine sorting this kind of stuff out for all the players we've had in and out recently and then trying to forecast accounts and make future plans.
Best case would still be sell for his remaining fee or above but if we're getting loads less it would make more sense to keep him and hope he had a successful loan or could be used by us in the first team still.
RE: If I Was In Hughton's Shoes - Paplane - 16-03-2021
Of course, the best case scenario is that he comes back pre-season, CH loves him to bits and turns him into the £13m player we actually purchased.
Yeah, I know........
RE: If I Was In Hughton's Shoes - Knocker West - 16-03-2021
(16-03-2021, 03:53 PM)Paplane Wrote: Of course, the best case scenario is that he comes back pre-season, CH loves him to bits and turns him into the £13m player we actually purchased.
Yeah, I know........
I have a friend holding out similar hopes for Nicolao Dumitru, that ain't going to happen either.
Sometime you just have to accept that the hot young prospect doesn't always grow into the player people expected or wanted.
RE: If I Was In Hughton's Shoes - wassy04 - 16-03-2021
(16-03-2021, 03:53 PM)Paplane Wrote: Of course, the best case scenario is that he comes back pre-season, CH loves him to bits and turns him into the £13m player we actually purchased.
Yeah, I know........
How about stick him in for 5 games, tell everyone to pass to him, let him take all set pieces then see if we can convince someone to take him!
Worked pretty well with Olly Burke
RE: If I Was In Hughton's Shoes - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 16-03-2021
How about just leaving it to EM and Mendes, two guys who are used to brokering business deals and know what they are doing and how to get the job done.
RE: If I Was In Hughton's Shoes - ThePromisedLand - 16-03-2021
(16-03-2021, 04:21 PM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: How about just leaving it to EM and Mendes, two guys who are used to brokering business deals and know what they are doing and how to get the job done.
Let’s hope so.
It ain’t worked so far.