(21-01-2021, 03:04 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 01:49 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Just done a quick count and from your list there are 12 players that are still contracted for next season and beyond that you have labelled as release or only good enough as back up. Realistically moving on most of those will be difficult/ impossible (many over 30years) and leaves us with a large and expensive bomb squad if they wont be used. Also means bringing in more will be difficult due to the current wages we are committed to. All of which some us warned about last summer.

Yeah I know but that is what is required to improve the team. I know you like to rag on the summer business but 6 of those signings we can immediately release along with a few others we can finally get away from. We're left with Blackett, Arter, Fred that we'd want rid of, the rest still have some value, even just as squad fillers. Remember most of these signings were made on the cheap too. 

Obviously doesn't correct from previous errors in transfers that were also made by the same people. Also, it's not great that from a big list of signings in the summer only one look capable of being a starter in a promotion team.

I stick by it though, if we want to go up this is the option. If we want to tread water for years and gradually wait for contracts to expire, whilst blooding youth, that's an option too, just makes it unlikely for us to be any better than midtable. We just don't have much quality here right now. I don't mind which we do really but being in the same league midtable over and over is pretty boring.

(21-01-2021, 03:00 PM)ThePromisedLand Wrote: The answer is simple.

Retain the manager - and the number of unwanted players will inevitably reduce over time.

This cannot be achieved in one window - but continuity is the key.

(21-01-2021, 03:00 PM)ThePromisedLand Wrote: The answer is simple.

Retain the manager - and the number of unwanted players will inevitably reduce over time.

This cannot be achieved in one window - but continuity is the key.

(21-01-2021, 11:47 AM)wassy04 Wrote: Bored, so thought it'd be interesting to look at our squad and try and work out what we needed to do to become a promotion side under CH:

I'm going to work within the parameters of the pandemic which essentially assumes we can't get out of existing contracts as no-one has money. Anyone 


GK
Samba - 2023 - keep, has his flaws and really needs to work on set pieces however in a promotion team I feel his flaws would be less of an issue. 
Smith - 2022
Diallo - 2021

RB
Christie - Loan, expires end of season - release
Jenkinson - 2022 - I shudder to think how much we're paying him to be backup. Release when contract expires
Gabriel - 2024 - unlikely to make it, consider release

LB
Ribeiro - 2021 - likely on low wages, would be better as the backup though. Realistically an area we need to improve in so release and sign a replacement in the summer.
Bong - 2022 - Release when contract expires
Blackett - 2022 - Release when contract expires
Ioannou - 2023 - sell

CB - clearly the only part of the team that is promotion quality
Worrall - 2024 - Keep, owes us one more year.
McKenna - 2024 - Looks good but known injury issues. 
Figs - 2022 - keep as backup, release when contract expires
Soh - 2024 - loan out if not going to be used.
Hefele - 2021 - release
Dawson - 2021 - move to coach

DM - 
Colback - 2022?
Sow - 2021 - renew contract, we're not going to find anyone better. Keep it short though
Fred - 2022 - release when possible
Arter - 2023 - urgh, sell if possible
Yates - 2023 - keep

CM 
Cafu - 2021 - stopback option, release at end of loan unless available as low wage backup
Freeman - 2021 - give as much gametime as can afford in the remainder of the season to see if he's worth keeping.
Carvalho - 2023 - not sure what's going on with him.
Johnson

Wingers
Ameobi - 2021 - solid but should be a backup at best in a promotion team. Renew
Lolley - 2023 - sell or consider loan
Knockaert - 2021 - barring a dramatic turnaround, do no resign.
Mighten - 2025 - play as much as possible and see how good he can be.
Da Costa - 2023 - sell if possible

Forwards
Grabban - 2022 - replace, not going to be easy or cheap though.
Taylor - 2023 - not looked better than a backup so far
Guerroro - 2022 - barely good enough as a backup
Clough - 2021 - can finally release!

So who would you keep of the above to make a promotion team:

Samba
RB
LB
Worrall
McKenna
Yates
Sow
CM/AM
Mighten
RW
S

I make it we need two full backs, a better AM and a better winger unless Lolley/Knockaert come good and a striker. Top striker might be optimistic, maybe Taylor could still be that player although doesn't look likely. So I make that 5 new starters required (plus relying on Mighten to reach that level), imagine that will be popular with everyone. My confidence is low that we can make this happen.

(21-01-2021, 04:01 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 03:04 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 01:49 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Just done a quick count and from your list there are 12 players that are still contracted for next season and beyond that you have labelled as release or only good enough as back up. Realistically moving on most of those will be difficult/ impossible (many over 30years) and leaves us with a large and expensive bomb squad if they wont be used. Also means bringing in more will be difficult due to the current wages we are committed to. All of which some us warned about last summer.

Yeah I know but that is what is required to improve the team. I know you like to rag on the summer business but 6 of those signings we can immediately release along with a few others we can finally get away from. We're left with Blackett, Arter, Fred that we'd want rid of, the rest still have some value, even just as squad fillers. Remember most of these signings were made on the cheap too. 

Obviously doesn't correct from previous errors in transfers that were also made by the same people. Also, it's not great that from a big list of signings in the summer only one look capable of being a starter in a promotion team.

I stick by it though, if we want to go up this is the option. If we want to tread water for years and gradually wait for contracts to expire, whilst blooding youth, that's an option too, just makes it unlikely for us to be any better than midtable. We just don't have much quality here right now. I don't mind which we do really but being in the same league midtable over and over is pretty boring.

The Post have an article up.  11 out of contract.  This year.

A Summer window with the chance to bring that quality in?

SA.

(21-01-2021, 11:47 AM)wassy04 Wrote: Bored, so thought it'd be interesting to look at our squad and try and work out what we needed to do to become a promotion side under CH:

I'm going to work within the parameters of the pandemic which essentially assumes we can't get out of existing contracts as no-one has money. Anyone 


GK
Samba - 2023 - keep, has his flaws and really needs to work on set pieces however in a promotion team I feel his flaws would be less of an issue. 
Smith - 2022
Diallo - 2021

RB
Christie - Loan, expires end of season - release
Jenkinson - 2022 - I shudder to think how much we're paying him to be backup. Release when contract expires
Gabriel - 2024 - unlikely to make it, consider release

LB
Ribeiro - 2021 - likely on low wages, would be better as the backup though. Realistically an area we need to improve in so release and sign a replacement in the summer.
Bong - 2022 - Release when contract expires
Blackett - 2022 - Release when contract expires
Ioannou - 2023 - sell

CB - clearly the only part of the team that is promotion quality
Worrall - 2024 - Keep, owes us one more year.
McKenna - 2024 - Looks good but known injury issues. 
Figs - 2022 - keep as backup, release when contract expires
Soh - 2024 - loan out if not going to be used.
Hefele - 2021 - release
Dawson - 2021 - move to coach

DM - 
Colback - 2022?
Sow - 2021 - renew contract, we're not going to find anyone better. Keep it short though
Fred - 2022 - release when possible
Arter - 2023 - urgh, sell if possible
Yates - 2023 - keep

CM 
Cafu - 2021 - stopback option, release at end of loan unless available as low wage backup
Freeman - 2021 - give as much gametime as can afford in the remainder of the season to see if he's worth keeping.
Carvalho - 2023 - not sure what's going on with him.
Johnson

Wingers
Ameobi - 2021 - solid but should be a backup at best in a promotion team. Renew
Lolley - 2023 - sell or consider loan
Knockaert - 2021 - barring a dramatic turnaround, do no resign.
Mighten - 2025 - play as much as possible and see how good he can be.
Da Costa - 2023 - sell if possible

Forwards
Grabban - 2022 - replace, not going to be easy or cheap though.
Taylor - 2023 - not looked better than a backup so far
Guerroro - 2022 - barely good enough as a backup
Clough - 2021 - can finally release!

So who would you keep of the above to make a promotion team:

Samba
RB
LB
Worrall
McKenna
Yates
Sow
CM/AM
Mighten
RW
S

I make it we need two full backs, a better AM and a better winger unless Lolley/Knockaert come good and a striker. Top striker might be optimistic, maybe Taylor could still be that player although doesn't look likely. So I make that 5 new starters required (plus relying on Mighten to reach that level), imagine that will be popular with everyone. My confidence is low that we can make this happen.

(21-01-2021, 07:38 PM)zicorice Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 04:01 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 03:04 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 01:49 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Just done a quick count and from your list there are 12 players that are still contracted for next season and beyond that you have labelled as release or only good enough as back up. Realistically moving on most of those will be difficult/ impossible (many over 30years) and leaves us with a large and expensive bomb squad if they wont be used. Also means bringing in more will be difficult due to the current wages we are committed to. All of which some us warned about last summer.

Yeah I know but that is what is required to improve the team. I know you like to rag on the summer business but 6 of those signings we can immediately release along with a few others we can finally get away from. We're left with Blackett, Arter, Fred that we'd want rid of, the rest still have some value, even just as squad fillers. Remember most of these signings were made on the cheap too. 

Obviously doesn't correct from previous errors in transfers that were also made by the same people. Also, it's not great that from a big list of signings in the summer only one look capable of being a starter in a promotion team.

I stick by it though, if we want to go up this is the option. If we want to tread water for years and gradually wait for contracts to expire, whilst blooding youth, that's an option too, just makes it unlikely for us to be any better than midtable. We just don't have much quality here right now. I don't mind which we do really but being in the same league midtable over and over is pretty boring.

The Post have an article up.  11 out of contract.  This year.

A Summer window with the chance to bring that quality in?

SA.

Shedding 11 contracted players (does this include loanees?) Would only reduce our squad to roughly sensible size, especially  considering  the return of Gabriel, Johnson, Preston and the other young RB whose name escapes me. One RB probably goes out on loan again at least. Good squad players who can jump in and do a decent job straight away are important but shouldnt be on big wage in my view. 

Maybe (and I'm trying to be optimistic here) some of our summer signings will come good. Fred and Colback both got injured (Jack was just starting to show signs of getting back on track to the player we all know he is or was), Taylor has shown something up top, but needs to show more.  

Next season should not be as condensed so big (giant) squad should not be as useful...just more deadwood on the sidelines. 

None in Jan and one or two real quality additions in bound would do me. Possibly an experienced keeper on a short contract to challenge Brice, especially if he doesn't recover his form soon. (Samba will come good again, all young keepers have this  blip, mostly after first couple of seasons as a 1st choice).

We definitely have far too many players though.

(22-01-2021, 10:18 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 07:38 PM)zicorice Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 04:01 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 03:04 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 01:49 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Just done a quick count and from your list there are 12 players that are still contracted for next season and beyond that you have labelled as release or only good enough as back up. Realistically moving on most of those will be difficult/ impossible (many over 30years) and leaves us with a large and expensive bomb squad if they wont be used. Also means bringing in more will be difficult due to the current wages we are committed to. All of which some us warned about last summer.

Yeah I know but that is what is required to improve the team. I know you like to rag on the summer business but 6 of those signings we can immediately release along with a few others we can finally get away from. We're left with Blackett, Arter, Fred that we'd want rid of, the rest still have some value, even just as squad fillers. Remember most of these signings were made on the cheap too. 

Obviously doesn't correct from previous errors in transfers that were also made by the same people. Also, it's not great that from a big list of signings in the summer only one look capable of being a starter in a promotion team.

I stick by it though, if we want to go up this is the option. If we want to tread water for years and gradually wait for contracts to expire, whilst blooding youth, that's an option too, just makes it unlikely for us to be any better than midtable. We just don't have much quality here right now. I don't mind which we do really but being in the same league midtable over and over is pretty boring.

The Post have an article up.  11 out of contract.  This year.

A Summer window with the chance to bring that quality in?

SA.

Shedding 11 contracted players (does this include loanees?) Would only reduce our squad to roughly sensible size, especially  considering  the return of Gabriel, Johnson, Preston and the other young RB whose name escapes me. One RB probably goes out on loan again at least. Good squad players who can jump in and do a decent job straight away are important but shouldnt be on big wage in my view. 

Maybe (and I'm trying to be optimistic here) some of our summer signings will come good. Fred and Colback both got injured (Jack was just starting to show signs of getting back on track to the player we all know he is or was), Taylor has shown something up top, but needs to show more.  

Next season should not be as condensed so big (giant) squad should not be as useful...just more deadwood on the sidelines. 

None in Jan and one or two real quality additions in bound would do me. Possibly an experienced keeper on a short contract to challenge Brice, especially if he doesn't recover his form soon. (Samba will come good again, all young keepers have this  blip, mostly after first couple of seasons as a 1st choice).

We definitely have far too many players though.

I disagree, I don't think we have that many players. I think you'd expect to have 3-5 young players out on loan. We're a bit overstocked at CB and CM but otherwise I'd say the squad size is about right. It's a narrative I find frustrating too, almost giving excuse to the team somehow. The idea we'd suddenly be competitive if you just took Hefele, Clough etc out of the squad makes no sense. From a financial perspective obviously these players sat on high wages is bad but from a footballing perspective I would say it has a marginal impact at best.

The thing that will have the biggest impact would be improving the starting 11.

(22-01-2021, 03:09 PM)zicorice Wrote:

(22-01-2021, 10:18 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 07:38 PM)zicorice Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 04:01 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:

(21-01-2021, 03:04 PM)wassy04 Wrote: Yeah I know but that is what is required to improve the team. I know you like to rag on the summer business but 6 of those signings we can immediately release along with a few others we can finally get away from. We're left with Blackett, Arter, Fred that we'd want rid of, the rest still have some value, even just as squad fillers. Remember most of these signings were made on the cheap too. 

Obviously doesn't correct from previous errors in transfers that were also made by the same people. Also, it's not great that from a big list of signings in the summer only one look capable of being a starter in a promotion team.

I stick by it though, if we want to go up this is the option. If we want to tread water for years and gradually wait for contracts to expire, whilst blooding youth, that's an option too, just makes it unlikely for us to be any better than midtable. We just don't have much quality here right now. I don't mind which we do really but being in the same league midtable over and over is pretty boring.

The Post have an article up.  11 out of contract.  This year.

A Summer window with the chance to bring that quality in?

SA.

Shedding 11 contracted players (does this include loanees?) Would only reduce our squad to roughly sensible size, especially  considering  the return of Gabriel, Johnson, Preston and the other young RB whose name escapes me. One RB probably goes out on loan again at least. Good squad players who can jump in and do a decent job straight away are important but shouldnt be on big wage in my view. 

Maybe (and I'm trying to be optimistic here) some of our summer signings will come good. Fred and Colback both got injured (Jack was just starting to show signs of getting back on track to the player we all know he is or was), Taylor has shown something up top, but needs to show more.  

Next season should not be as condensed so big (giant) squad should not be as useful...just more deadwood on the sidelines. 

None in Jan and one or two real quality additions in bound would do me. Possibly an experienced keeper on a short contract to challenge Brice, especially if he doesn't recover his form soon. (Samba will come good again, all young keepers have this  blip, mostly after first couple of seasons as a 1st choice).

We definitely have far too many players though.

I disagree, I don't think we have that many players. I think you'd expect to have 3-5 young players out on loan. We're a bit overstocked at CB and CM but otherwise I'd say the squad size is about right. It's a narrative I find frustrating too, almost giving excuse to the team somehow. The idea we'd suddenly be competitive if you just took Hefele, Clough etc out of the squad makes no sense. From a financial perspective obviously these players sat on high wages is bad but from a footballing perspective I would say it has a marginal impact at best.

The thing that will have the biggest impact would be improving the starting 11.

Looking at the potential team tomorrow when you consider injuries at the present time, I'm not so sure. But I suppose the question us how many is too many? 

We have gazzillions of Centre Mids, yet Sow (ironic or what?) the only one definitely fit without rejigging after Yates' injury. So it looks like we are adding another.

I do think though -and suspect you might agree- our 2nd string (esp if add bomb squad) is way over a reasonable budget for players who are just back up and unlikely to be 1st choice. Jenkinson, Bong, Hef, Fred, Arter, Clough, Freeman maybe. 

I haven't included those who could be starters (eg.Lolley, Colback, Taylor) or those who are on wages appropriate to a squad player. (Eg. Smith, Figs, Guerrero) or youngsters like Soh.

Also, rare to sign good players at this level in January. Plus bedding in new players-especislly without a preseason- can take time.

I honestly dont think we will go down (famous last words..) and sure we wont go up, so what's the point in bringing in new players now? Permanent signings have a "January tax" too. 

This season is all about The FA Cup for us now.....