(13-01-2021, 12:25 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(13-01-2021, 11:56 AM)Sausage Roll Wrote:

(13-01-2021, 11:52 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(13-01-2021, 11:41 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote: I agree - nothing to see here.

I really don’t get why this particular article is stirring up emotions.

Also agreed, it wasn't particularly critical merely an insight into the current structure and raised a few fairly straightforward questions about it. There does seem to be two camps with DT, one that hates him and will assume everything he says is done to sell subscriptions and the other that thinks he's a journalist raising issues at his club, that most fans would appreciate being in the public eye as they deserve scrutiny.

Would people prefer he said nothing and all the issues just went on in the background until we got relegated or the owners decided to sell up. Then when it came out everyone would be saying "why didn't it come out sooner".

You can tell my camp, I see no issue with constructive criticism in general which I feel like his articles have been for the most part. I would be interested to understand is motives for the timing of some of the articles in terms of how it helps the club short term but that's about it.

Having just read the full article I'm not sure why the hullaballoo either. It's not particularly damning. The point about Modesto working across both Forest and Oly is a valid one - it would probably benefit Forest (more than Oly) if we had a dedicated international scout looking *just* for players for Forest. That's up to Marinakis though, it's his gig.

But there's also an argument that a 2nd division club who've not been in the top division for 20 odd years might actually benefit from an association with a serial champions league club? I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that there's two sides to every argument. His Oly link might actually allow him to get a foot in the door with some players. Maybe? I dunno.

(13-01-2021, 12:40 PM)Widdow Wrote:

(13-01-2021, 12:25 PM)Paplane Wrote:

(13-01-2021, 11:56 AM)Sausage Roll Wrote:

(13-01-2021, 11:52 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(13-01-2021, 11:41 AM)ThePromisedLand Wrote: I agree - nothing to see here.

I really don’t get why this particular article is stirring up emotions.

Also agreed, it wasn't particularly critical merely an insight into the current structure and raised a few fairly straightforward questions about it. There does seem to be two camps with DT, one that hates him and will assume everything he says is done to sell subscriptions and the other that thinks he's a journalist raising issues at his club, that most fans would appreciate being in the public eye as they deserve scrutiny.

Would people prefer he said nothing and all the issues just went on in the background until we got relegated or the owners decided to sell up. Then when it came out everyone would be saying "why didn't it come out sooner".

You can tell my camp, I see no issue with constructive criticism in general which I feel like his articles have been for the most part. I would be interested to understand is motives for the timing of some of the articles in terms of how it helps the club short term but that's about it.

Having just read the full article I'm not sure why the hullaballoo either. It's not particularly damning. The point about Modesto working across both Forest and Oly is a valid one - it would probably benefit Forest (more than Oly) if we had a dedicated international scout looking *just* for players for Forest. That's up to Marinakis though, it's his gig.

But there's also an argument that a 2nd division club who've not been in the top division for 20 odd years might actually benefit from an association with a serial champions league club? I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that there's two sides to every argument. His Oly link might actually allow him to get a foot in the door with some players. Maybe? I dunno.

Hasnt worked so far has it?

(13-01-2021, 06:51 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: I for one believe we actually did change our track and we actually recruited well on paper this summer. The profile has turned out to be wrong but historical stats at this level and above for many of our signings suggested tried and tested. I think the amount was wrong and balance ended up wrong but I cannot throw lack of ambition

Freeman: on paper one of the best ACM in the championship over the last 4-5 years.
McKenna: Scottish international left footed centre back consistently linked with moves to top championship and lower premiership clubs. Injury record is a slight concern.
Arter: played in a promotion team and been bobbing about at top end championship and low end premiership for last 5-6 years. Still think there is a player there but hold hands up to say I am greatly disappointed
Colback: was lauded as a great signing and another no brainer
Ioannou: one dodgy red card and sent packing. I liked him and he suited the championship. Riberio and him fighting it out - perfect different options depending on opposition
Knockeart: signed by Fulham for 10m+ this summer. Played at top end championship and lower end prem for last 5 years -
Taylor: gave the best opposing centre forward display I’ve seen first hand last year against us for Charlton - free - experienced and in his prime - no brainer
Mbe Soh- PSG squad player at a young age- brilliant potential and unlucky not to have played many games. Like what I’ve seen.
Bachirou: goodness knows - but came lauded as a very good deep playmaker...
Keeper: god knows
Christie: top end champ low end prem last 3-5 years. Eire international- good experience - not matty Cash!
You can make a case for all of them.
Only Christie / McKenna / knockeart / soh have been anything like near what I expected...

On the other hand the academy recruitment seems really interesting for the last 18 months - some exciting comments coming through about a number of the players - the french ACM championship is one I know Reidy is personally very excited about. And we have a good number out on loan getting valuable experience and gaining good reputations - fornah, Johnson, Gabriel, Richardson, mcguane...

(13-01-2021, 06:51 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: I for one believe we actually did change our track and we actually recruited well on paper this summer. The profile has turned out to be wrong but historical stats at this level and above for many of our signings suggested tried and tested. I think the amount was wrong and balance ended up wrong but I cannot throw lack of ambition

Freeman: on paper one of the best ACM in the championship over the last 4-5 years.
McKenna: Scottish international left footed centre back consistently linked with moves to top championship and lower premiership clubs. Injury record is a slight concern.
Arter: played in a promotion team and been bobbing about at top end championship and low end premiership for last 5-6 years. Still think there is a player there but hold hands up to say I am greatly disappointed
Colback: was lauded as a great signing and another no brainer
Ioannou: one dodgy red card and sent packing. I liked him and he suited the championship. Riberio and him fighting it out - perfect different options depending on opposition
Knockeart: signed by Fulham for 10m+ this summer. Played at top end championship and lower end prem for last 5 years -
Taylor: gave the best opposing centre forward display I’ve seen first hand last year against us for Charlton - free - experienced and in his prime - no brainer
Mbe Soh- PSG squad player at a young age- brilliant potential and unlucky not to have played many games. Like what I’ve seen.
Bachirou: goodness knows - but came lauded as a very good deep playmaker...
Keeper: god knows
Christie: top end champ low end prem last 3-5 years. Eire international- good experience - not matty Cash!
You can make a case for all of them.
Only Christie / McKenna / knockeart / soh have been anything like near what I expected...

On the other hand the academy recruitment seems really interesting for the last 18 months - some exciting comments coming through about a number of the players - the french ACM championship is one I know Reidy is personally very excited about. And we have a good number out on loan getting valuable experience and gaining good reputations - fornah, Johnson, Gabriel, Richardson, mcguane...

(13-01-2021, 07:01 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(13-01-2021, 06:51 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: I for one believe we actually did change our track and we actually recruited well on paper this summer. The profile has turned out to be wrong but historical stats at this level and above for many of our signings suggested tried and tested. I think the amount was wrong and balance ended up wrong but I cannot throw lack of ambition

Freeman: on paper one of the best ACM in the championship over the last 4-5 years.
McKenna: Scottish international left footed centre back consistently linked with moves to top championship and lower premiership clubs. Injury record is a slight concern.
Arter: played in a promotion team and been bobbing about at top end championship and low end premiership for last 5-6 years. Still think there is a player there but hold hands up to say I am greatly disappointed
Colback: was lauded as a great signing and another no brainer
Ioannou: one dodgy red card and sent packing. I liked him and he suited the championship. Riberio and him fighting it out - perfect different options depending on opposition
Knockeart: signed by Fulham for 10m+ this summer. Played at top end championship and lower end prem for last 5 years -
Taylor: gave the best opposing centre forward display I’ve seen first hand last year against us for Charlton - free - experienced and in his prime - no brainer
Mbe Soh- PSG squad player at a young age- brilliant potential and unlucky not to have played many games. Like what I’ve seen.
Bachirou: goodness knows - but came lauded as a very good deep playmaker...
Keeper: god knows
Christie: top end champ low end prem last 3-5 years. Eire international- good experience - not matty Cash!
You can make a case for all of them.
Only Christie / McKenna / knockeart / soh have been anything like near what I expected...

On the other hand the academy recruitment seems really interesting for the last 18 months - some exciting comments coming through about a number of the players - the french ACM championship is one I know Reidy is personally very excited about. And we have a good number out on loan getting valuable experience and gaining good reputations - fornah, Johnson, Gabriel, Richardson, mcguane...

Careful that's almost praise! Of the above I honestly think most were required too. 

Freeman - Replace Carv
Colback - Replace Watson
Christie - Replace Cash
Taylor - Replace Walker
Mckenna - Replace Figs
Knockaert - Replace Adomah/Diakhaby
Arter/Cafu/Fred - Replace Silva/add depth, probably could've got rid of one.
Ioannou - Replace Bong
Mbe Soh - This one is a bit odd really but maybe a long term heir to Worrall when we inevitably have to cash in. Either way fits type of signing most want.
Diallo - third keeper, who cares
Guerroro - Replace Da Costa

So Blackett and one of the CMs we didn't need, otherwise they were all filling holes. The consensus was last season our squad lacked depth and we added a little more depth and filled in the holes. I don't get the furore personally. Just disappointing such an overhaul was required really.

(13-01-2021, 06:51 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: I for one believe we actually did change our track and we actually recruited well on paper this summer. The profile has turned out to be wrong but historical stats at this level and above for many of our signings suggested tried and tested. I think the amount was wrong and balance ended up wrong but I cannot throw lack of ambition

Freeman: on paper one of the best ACM in the championship over the last 4-5 years.
McKenna: Scottish international left footed centre back consistently linked with moves to top championship and lower premiership clubs. Injury record is a slight concern.
Arter: played in a promotion team and been bobbing about at top end championship and low end premiership for last 5-6 years. Still think there is a player there but hold hands up to say I am greatly disappointed
Colback: was lauded as a great signing and another no brainer
Ioannou: one dodgy red card and sent packing. I liked him and he suited the championship. Riberio and him fighting it out - perfect different options depending on opposition
Knockeart: signed by Fulham for 10m+ this summer. Played at top end championship and lower end prem for last 5 years -
Taylor: gave the best opposing centre forward display I’ve seen first hand last year against us for Charlton - free - experienced and in his prime - no brainer
Mbe Soh- PSG squad player at a young age- brilliant potential and unlucky not to have played many games. Like what I’ve seen.
Bachirou: goodness knows - but came lauded as a very good deep playmaker...
Keeper: god knows
Christie: top end champ low end prem last 3-5 years. Eire international- good experience - not matty Cash!
You can make a case for all of them.
Only Christie / McKenna / knockeart / soh have been anything like near what I expected...

On the other hand the academy recruitment seems really interesting for the last 18 months - some exciting comments coming through about a number of the players - the french ACM championship is one I know Reidy is personally very excited about. And we have a good number out on loan getting valuable experience and gaining good reputations - fornah, Johnson, Gabriel, Richardson, mcguane...

(13-01-2021, 08:18 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:

(13-01-2021, 06:51 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: I for one believe we actually did change our track and we actually recruited well on paper this summer. The profile has turned out to be wrong but historical stats at this level and above for many of our signings suggested tried and tested. I think the amount was wrong and balance ended up wrong but I cannot throw lack of ambition

Freeman: on paper one of the best ACM in the championship over the last 4-5 years.
McKenna: Scottish international left footed centre back consistently linked with moves to top championship and lower premiership clubs. Injury record is a slight concern.
Arter: played in a promotion team and been bobbing about at top end championship and low end premiership for last 5-6 years. Still think there is a player there but hold hands up to say I am greatly disappointed
Colback: was lauded as a great signing and another no brainer
Ioannou: one dodgy red card and sent packing. I liked him and he suited the championship. Riberio and him fighting it out - perfect different options depending on opposition
Knockeart: signed by Fulham for 10m+ this summer. Played at top end championship and lower end prem for last 5 years -
Taylor: gave the best opposing centre forward display I’ve seen first hand last year against us for Charlton - free - experienced and in his prime - no brainer
Mbe Soh- PSG squad player at a young age- brilliant potential and unlucky not to have played many games. Like what I’ve seen.
Bachirou: goodness knows - but came lauded as a very good deep playmaker...
Keeper: god knows
Christie: top end champ low end prem last 3-5 years. Eire international- good experience - not matty Cash!
You can make a case for all of them.
Only Christie / McKenna / knockeart / soh have been anything like near what I expected...

On the other hand the academy recruitment seems really interesting for the last 18 months - some exciting comments coming through about a number of the players - the french ACM championship is one I know Reidy is personally very excited about. And we have a good number out on loan getting valuable experience and gaining good reputations - fornah, Johnson, Gabriel, Richardson, mcguane...

I like that Ozzyten10 my San.

Generally upgrades.

Caveats being the bad timing of Sabri sacking and thinking you can have time off training for life in the Championship with no preseason.  Plus at least Arter, Colback, Freeman and Knockerheart arrived unfit with some not having 1st team football for a year.

Colback was getting better with each match and Knocker has improved with game time.

SA.

(13-01-2021, 08:34 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: Forgot Blackett and Guerrero - both of which have not impressed...

(13-01-2021, 09:56 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: And Cafu yes - probably one of the only successes so far