+- COYR NOTTINGHAM FOREST FORUM (https://coyrforestforum.co.uk)
+-- Forum: NOTTINGHAM FOREST - A REBEL CLUB IN A REBEL CITY (https://coyrforestforum.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Nottingham Forest Fan Talk - Forest All Over The World (https://coyrforestforum.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Optimism Or Not? (/showthread.php?tid=500)
RE: Optimism Or Not? - wassy04 - 30-04-2019
(29-04-2019, 09:09 PM)woody Wrote:(29-04-2019, 08:30 PM)wassy04 Wrote:(29-04-2019, 07:53 PM)Sniffer Dog Wrote:(29-04-2019, 07:37 PM)wassy04 Wrote:(29-04-2019, 07:08 PM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: Has it crossed anyone's mind that MONS treatment of Carvalho has actually been good for the player and we will now benefit from that?
I am optimistic that Carvalho will become a better player now.
Can’t say that, would be admitting it was a good tactic! ;) there is no way of knowing whether any improvement was due to this treatment, the coaching or whether this would’ve happened regardless so it’s all speculation. I guess it’s the end result that matters, if MON is essentially admitting his mistakes and playing him every week from now on then I will accept it. I remain concerned he only played as an experiment and will be abandoned next season.
I like Carvalho and I hope he will stay with us but I don't get this 'Carvalho love in'. Let's not forget that Karanka was also leaving him out before MON arrived. Yes he was great against Boro but he has also been anonymous in many games this season. We shouldn't forget that.
For me the jury is still out.
Yeah I’ve never claimed carvalho is a great player, simply that he should be in the team and has been treated badly, which could’ve harmed his growth. Also he only missed one game away at reading and it was one of our worst performances. Another myth that one I just looked he started the previous 3 games.
With that in mind though the potential for big improvement in carvalho is one of the main reasons for optimism. Players tend to have a big leap in their second season in England and that also applies for a first full season playing regularly. He’s showed flashes so far but if he could add consistency it could be exciting.
(Sorry for bringing it back to him but I feel it’s on line win the thread)
Where is the evidence that he's been treated badly? Are you seeing O'Neill beating him with a baseball bat or force feeding him dog food? Truth is you dont know. Its supposition on your part because Carvalho is all good as far as you're concerned. I dont know for sure but given O'Neills overall managerial record, Carvalho's differing performance before and since he returned, Im looking on it as the treatment that Carvalho needs to make him a better player. Its early days but I hope that Carvalho will also see it as the correct response to his patchy performances. There are many examples of players needing some hard love to make them realise their potential. The biggest lesson that any player in the Forest squad should have learned since O'Neills arrival is that as well as Carvalho, no player will be allowed to coast through games, everyone must contribute and give 100%. Its all for the good of Nottingham Forest FC and for next season. About time some people started seeing the bigger picture.
As I said before it’s all speculation, all I can do is think how I’d react in his shoes and I’d imagine I’d feel awkward about the way MON used him to bait the crowd. I didn’t like his reaction when we chanted his name or his reaction when he gave the ball away (later turned out this challenge had given him concussion)
I’m just saying I didn’t like it, for the good of the club I’d want players and fans to be shown more respect and management to understand the importance of keeping fans onside. All of this debate is speculation, I really hope my opinion is wrong or that I’m right but this way works too.
RE: Optimism Or Not? - woody - 30-04-2019
I hope so too Wassy because you paint a rather Dick Dastedly image of MON. Surely he learnt some tricks from the Master Manager and we all know he’s a very intelligent man. So, I’m going to stick to my theory that it was a hard love lesson he tried to administer and Carvalho will be an all round top bloke as a result !
RE: Optimism Or Not? - Maltared - 30-04-2019
(29-04-2019, 07:53 PM)Sniffer Dog Wrote:(29-04-2019, 07:37 PM)wassy04 Wrote:(29-04-2019, 07:08 PM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: Has it crossed anyone's mind that MONS treatment of Carvalho has actually been good for the player and we will now benefit from that?
I am optimistic that Carvalho will become a better player now.
Can’t say that, would be admitting it was a good tactic! ;) there is no way of knowing whether any improvement was due to this treatment, the coaching or whether this would’ve happened regardless so it’s all speculation. I guess it’s the end result that matters, if MON is essentially admitting his mistakes and playing him every week from now on then I will accept it. I remain concerned he only played as an experiment and will be abandoned next season.
I like Carvalho and I hope he will stay with us but I don't get this 'Carvalho love in'. Let's not forget that Karanka was also leaving him out before MON arrived. Yes he was great against Boro but he has also been anonymous in many games this season. We shouldn't forget that.
For me the jury is still out.
Is there a need for me to confirm that I agree with you Snif :D
RE: Optimism Or Not? - ac_vodka - 30-04-2019
optimistic - we need a plan B for Carv - i think that is why he generates so much attention other then his price as we simply don`t have one.
RE: Optimism Or Not? - zicorice - 30-04-2019
Super optimistic. Sold house, got a new job and house hunting in Notts. Bought 2 season tickets today. Life is good.
RE: Optimism Or Not? - Redgirl - 01-05-2019
I’m on the fence on this one. I would say apprehensive rather than optimistic, I’ll see what preseason brings.
Not negative far from it, just a bit battle worn and weary at the moment.
RE: Optimism Or Not? - Mcforest - 01-05-2019
Think it is all going to depend on the transfer window really. We know as a team we are not good enough for top 6 at the moment so we need quality to make the step up. The types of players MON bring in will give us an idea how we play, and i would be lying if i wasn't concerned especially as we have already seen the MON bit in the paper how Murphy will be a big player for us next season. We also need to see who leaves the team from the first team and the quantity of bit part players in order to generate the funds to bring players in.
RE: Optimism Or Not? - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 01-05-2019
(30-04-2019, 06:55 PM)ac_vodka Wrote: optimistic - we need a plan B for Carv - i think that is why he generates so much attention other then his price as we simply don`t have one.
Comes back to bad recrutement again last summer when we recruited too many defensive midfielders and not enough attacking midfielders. Soudani would perhaps have 'pushed' Carvalho if he had been able to stay fit but we are lacking in that department in my opinion.
RE: Optimism Or Not? - Alf - 01-05-2019
I'm optimistic. In fact the only problem we've had since MON arrived IMO is the style of football.
Results have been pretty much what's expected for a manager rushed into a job with few signings of his own; we're currently 10th which would be our highest finish in 6 years, and also our highest none-Billy finish since Hart; whilst some see Carva's exclusion as a bad thing, I think it shows we can still do OK without him should he get injured next year and aren't looking to have just 1 plan; and we've also some good academy lads returning who have had good seasons such as Worrall & Walker, who can not only form a real core of backup players, but also add to the Forest feeling at the club.
RE: Optimism Or Not? - Mad Mel - 02-05-2019
Optimistic? Of course, very much so, can't wait for next season to be begin. Bring it on.
RE: Optimism Or Not? - Strawberry Avenger - 02-05-2019
(29-04-2019, 10:47 AM)woody Wrote: With the albeit ‘too little, too late’ improvement of performance and rumours of three or four very decent signings and some ambitious loans, does anyone else share my optimism for next season?
I’ve always felt the criticism of MON was rather harsh and that it would be next season, not this season that we would see the benefit of a truly premiership quality manager.
Super optimistic.
SA.
RE: Optimism Or Not? - Strawberry Avenger - 02-05-2019
(01-05-2019, 02:59 PM)Alf Wrote: I'm optimistic. In fact the only problem we've had since MON arrived IMO is the style of football.
Results have been pretty much what's expected for a manager rushed into a job with few signings of his own; we're currently 10th which would be our highest finish in 6 years, and also our highest none-Billy finish since Hart; whilst some see Carva's exclusion as a bad thing, I think it shows we can still do OK without him should he get injured next year and aren't looking to have just 1 plan; and we've also some good academy lads returning who have had good seasons such as Worrall & Walker, who can not only form a real core of backup players, but also add to the Forest feeling at the club.
The style of football is the same as it was during Karanka's transition period. Robust survival football. The style you have to go through as you battle to imprint your beliefs on players who don't want to listen, to old to learn new tricks, too lazy, too young, too cocky, too stupid, too lightweight, too crap, too mediocre, too don't listen etc...or simply? They don't have it.
We'll see who fits into the 'not in the future of our club' mold real soon. Can't wait.
Yes. Our highest finish in 6 years? Golly. £25 million bought us that. 'Catch up.'
But to progress, the squad is going to need pruning and investment spread amongst more players than it was last Summer. Not only that, it needs to be players that fit the 'robust but can play a bit' mentality and physicality unique to the Championship.
I'm excited about how the squad is going to shape up under Martin. He's EXACTLY the kind of manage you need in the Championship. Complaints about the football? Forest having been playing champagne football for the last 20 years. Nor have many in the Championship. Most of it is 'get by' football.
SA.