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+--- Thread: Joao Carvalho (/showthread.php?tid=433)
RE: Joao Carvalho - TheGreenMan - 28-05-2021
(28-05-2021, 10:28 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: A good player fits into any system and can play for any manager. You called Sabri ultra defensive yet Grabban scored 20 plus goals in that ultra mega defensive system.
Face facts Carvalho is not as good as some think he is just because of the odd fancy flick here and there. People who know football well don't fall for that S**t. The bloke has some talent but he needs to up his game if he wants to have a decent career. He's almost 25 now and he's achieved absolutely nothing in the game so far.
Completely disagree regarding a good player can play for any manager that’s absolute bullshit..Dinosaur O’Neill is renowned for playing kick and rush type of footballers. Not every footballer suits a particular type of manager and vice versa.
Yeah Grabban had a good season for the first three quarters of it, we didn’t exactly create much, but he took his chances when he got them. He’s been mainly shocking since.
Sabri got worse as the season went on defensive wise and once the season restarted he seemed to bottle it completely. So you were happy with Sabri starting FIVE defenders away at Barnsley then?? And is that not ultra defensive?? Barnsley were bottom of the f*****g league at the time!!
RE: Joao Carvalho - GaribaldiRED - 28-05-2021
(28-05-2021, 01:00 PM)TheGreenMan Wrote:(28-05-2021, 11:09 AM)Jsmed Wrote: Too many people with rose tinted glasses, Carvalho has done next to nothing at forest and the same at Almeria. For all of his talent and potential, he’s not living up to it.
Look at Goncalves, he’s now playing in benfica’s first team after being written off by all forest fans. He’s obviously got his head down and worked hard, can we say the same for Carvalho?
We paid 13 mil for him, can anybody honestly say he’s worth anywhere near that amount now? Even half that?
TheGreenMan - it’s fine saying we need flair players, I agree we do, but IMO Carvalho isn’t the player we need. As mentioned previously, depending on the agreed fee with Almeria, it could be in our best interest to let him move on, especially as we still owe benfica a lot of money for him.
If Almeria take up the option to sign him, all of this talk is irrelevant anyways.
Haven’t got a problem if we sell him I’m really not fussed.....But we need a balanced team not just midfielders who run around a lot.
Agree that we need a balanced midfield but all of the midfielders must be prepared to fight for the cause. We cannot afford to carry any player no matter how creative he is.
RE: Joao Carvalho - stirred - 28-05-2021
(28-05-2021, 07:41 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote:(26-05-2021, 11:50 PM)stirred Wrote: Re possible reintroduction for Carvalho for next season, from Daniel Taylor when asked about JC today:
"Carvalho's a nice lad. He wanted to learn the language, so he took English lessons (paid for by himself). He bought a dog, embraced the city. Tiago Silva did not like Nottingham, but Carvalho made it his business to get involved. His girlfriend even opened a fashion boutique in the city centre. Most people would see that as a good thing, that he was putting down roots in Nottingham etc. Forest were - for reasons I will never understand - furious about it, at the top of the club. 'An effing bikini shop'. They had a real issue and seemed to think it was evidence that he was distracted(?!)."
Also said there was resentment cos he got so much attention on social media, and also that he didn't want to go to Oly, similar to Ribeiro.
Does 'top of the club' mean Vrentzos, so more likely another chance for him if IV moves on?
Is any of that really important?
It's about what he did in training and what he did on the pitch that matters and the truth is that he didn't do very much.
Who cares if he bought a dog and his Mrs opened a shop etc etc.
Unbelievable!
Whether he wants to be at Forest and whether Forest want him are relevant to whether he will return for another chance, which is an open question. Attitudes matter, it’s not purely about what they do on the pitch.
Up to the reader if they believe it!
RE: Joao Carvalho - Madforit - 28-05-2021
(28-05-2021, 01:00 PM)TheGreenMan Wrote:(28-05-2021, 11:09 AM)Jsmed Wrote: Too many people with rose tinted glasses, Carvalho has done next to nothing at forest and the same at Almeria. For all of his talent and potential, he’s not living up to it.
Look at Goncalves, he’s now playing in benfica’s first team after being written off by all forest fans. He’s obviously got his head down and worked hard, can we say the same for Carvalho?
We paid 13 mil for him, can anybody honestly say he’s worth anywhere near that amount now? Even half that?
TheGreenMan - it’s fine saying we need flair players, I agree we do, but IMO Carvalho isn’t the player we need. As mentioned previously, depending on the agreed fee with Almeria, it could be in our best interest to let him move on, especially as we still owe benfica a lot of money for him.
If Almeria take up the option to sign him, all of this talk is irrelevant anyways.
Haven’t got a problem if we sell him I’m really not fussed.....But we need a balanced team not just midfielders who run around a lot.
So on that we should be selling Yates this summer, because that appears to be all he does.
RE: Joao Carvalho - Salvatore Matrecano - 28-05-2021
(28-05-2021, 11:09 AM)Jsmed Wrote: Look at Goncalves, he’s now playing in benfica’s first team after being written off by all forest fans. He’s obviously got his head down and worked hard, can we say the same for Carvalho?
Now heres the thing. What if Goncalves had stayed with us. Do you think he would be playing regularly? I dont, he wouldnt have been given the chance. Im sure he got his head down and worked hard here too.
He has ability, so does Carvalho but it needed nurturing. We werent prepared to do that because of the all pervading have to win, have to get promoted or the manager gets sacked short termist approach here.
Carvalho is good enough IMO more than a luxury player, but no manager is prepared to risk someone who only contributes sporadically.
Part of the problem is himself, suspect he could do more but part of it is the way he has been treated by the club and the succession of mangers he has had. I dont agree a good player can fit in any system thats too simplistic. To go back to the original point why then is Goncalves playing for Benfica when here we were writing him off as another shit import?
RE: Joao Carvalho - Salvatore Matrecano - 28-05-2021
By the way I like both Yates and Carvalho. If I was manger they would both be in my side.
Am I deluded?
RE: Joao Carvalho - wassy04 - 28-05-2021
(28-05-2021, 03:05 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:(28-05-2021, 11:09 AM)Jsmed Wrote: Look at Goncalves, he’s now playing in benfica’s first team after being written off by all forest fans. He’s obviously got his head down and worked hard, can we say the same for Carvalho?
Now heres the thing. What if Goncalves had stayed with us. Do you think he would be playing regularly? I dont, he wouldnt have been given the chance. Im sure he got his head down and worked hard here too.
He has ability, so does Carvalho but it needed nurturing. We werent prepared to do that because of the all pervading have to win, have to get promoted or the manager gets sacked short termist approach here.
Carvalho is good enough IMO more than a luxury player, but no manager is prepared to risk someone who only contributes sporadically.
Part of the problem is himself, suspect he could do more but part of it is the way he has been treated by the club and the succession of mangers he has had. I dont agree a good player can fit in any system thats too simplistic. To go back to the original point why then is Goncalves playing for Benfica when here we were writing him off as another S**t import?
Not every player makes the leap from talented youngster to first teamer I guess. I agree though, as I said above, I think given the silly fee we paid we really shouldn't prioritised his development more in terms of managerial appointments and tactics.
His only real value right now is based on our initial fee paid and therefore might tempt others to invest.
I reckon Almeria will sign him anyway
RE: Joao Carvalho - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 29-05-2021
(28-05-2021, 12:47 PM)wassy04 Wrote:(28-05-2021, 10:28 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: A good player fits into any system and can play for any manager. You called Sabri ultra defensive yet Grabban scored 20 plus goals in that ultra mega defensive system.
Face facts Carvalho is not as good as some think he is just because of the odd fancy flick here and there. People who know football well don't fall for that S**t. The bloke has some talent but he needs to up his game if he wants to have a decent career. He's almost 25 now and he's achieved absolutely nothing in the game so far.
Not sure I agree on the first point, if you're a winger and your team doesn't play wingers for example you're likely to struggle. Plenty of examples of good players that just aren't suited to a certain system. What about someone like Marcos Alonso, pretty crap as a LB but as soon as they play a LWB he's one of the best in the world in that position.
A good comparison in a purely positional sense is Dele Alli, has struggled whenever he's been asked to play anywhere other than behind a striker.
I'm not saying this as evidence that Carv should come back btw, doesn't sound like he's exactly torn up trees at Almeria either. Just that he was never going to succeed in Sabri's formation
The whole MoN appointment was odd anyway but given the excessive investment we'd made it would've been prudent to employ a manager that was willing to make him the focal point at the time, similar to under AK. If nothing else just to protect his value
I did say that a good player fits into any system not that a good player fits into any position.
RE: Joao Carvalho - Alf - 29-05-2021
(28-05-2021, 10:01 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote:(28-05-2021, 09:37 AM)TheGreenMan Wrote: Yeah who needs creative flair players like Carvalho....Let’s build a team around useless knuckle draggers like Yates and end up league one.....Absolutely buzzing can’t wait for next season.
Ridiculous comparison between two very very different types of player and when did Carvalho show all this creative flair that you speak of? Boro at home in a nothing game under your favourite manager MON :D
I am not against Carvalho getting another shot but if it's just going to be the same Carvalho of old then we are wasting our time in my opinion.
Pretty much my view. According to FB Ref here's Carvas stats for the season:
2020-2021
Segunda División
MP
31
Min
1802
Gls
0
Ast
3
0 goals in 31 games in the Spanish second division? Not sure I see that as a return worth much time, but Hughton will obviously be able to assess that far better than I ever could.
Reports are that he's had a mixed season performance wise, started brightly, faded away, got dropped under the old manager then re-found himself a bit under the next bloke. That also doesn't strike me as someone who Hughton would want, as - regardless of what you think to his talent - his form has always been bitty, and he's not a player who'll impose himself on games, more someone who'll make something magic happen if he's in the mood every now and then.
The problem with Carvalho for any manager will always be that when he's out the side fans will be assuming that if he was in the side he'd be playing those rare moments of brilliants consistently. But he's never done that, and is clearly a player who needs dropping as the manager sees fit to manage his form.
(28-05-2021, 10:01 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Think people forget Yates is only 23 and Carvalho 24. Personally I think Yates is another Osborn who we wont appreciate until he has gone. Regularly picked by 4 successive managers, yes he will play n the PL willing to have a bet with anyone.
Carvalho, rte ability is there if he applies himself, its up to him.
Agreed about both, and I've far more confidence in Yates, who gives 100%in everything he does, continuing to improve than I have Carvalho, who seems to be someone who does what's easy to him.
Yates was only a handful of headers away from being a great player last season. He's still got flaws to his game, but which player hasn't. If he can start burying a few more of those headed chances folk will soon be hyping him up as a 10m player.
RE: Joao Carvalho - Tricky - 29-05-2021
(28-05-2021, 03:05 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:(28-05-2021, 11:09 AM)Jsmed Wrote: Look at Goncalves, he’s now playing in benfica’s first team after being written off by all forest fans. He’s obviously got his head down and worked hard, can we say the same for Carvalho?
Now heres the thing. What if Goncalves had stayed with us. Do you think he would be playing regularly? I dont, he wouldnt have been given the chance. Im sure he got his head down and worked hard here too.
He has ability, so does Carvalho but it needed nurturing. We werent prepared to do that because of the all pervading have to win, have to get promoted or the manager gets sacked short termist approach here.
Carvalho is good enough IMO more than a luxury player, but no manager is prepared to risk someone who only contributes sporadically.
Part of the problem is himself, suspect he could do more but part of it is the way he has been treated by the club and the succession of mangers he has had. I dont agree a good player can fit in any system thats too simplistic. To go back to the original point why then is Goncalves playing for Benfica when here we were writing him off as another S**t import?
Interesting and agreeable post SM.
I think in answer to your question, you have to look at the league we play in, in comparison to the one he currently plays in. The Championship is probably the toughest league in the world as it combines a good deal of PL technicalities, albeit to a much lower standard, and the rough and tough typical English lower league sides physicality's.
The Championship is no place for shrinking violets and only has so much tolerance towards overly skilful, majestic football. These are often cancelled out by a few onerous looking challenges and the dirty shenanigans and goings on, often done on the refs blind side. If these things occur on a regular basis throughout the course of a season, then a talented players confidence will be dented, it makes them look poor and selection is called into question and other teams will pick up on that players 'weaknesses' and force his errors. Players like James Garner will thrive in the Championship because they not only have that luxurious majesticity, but he also has the grit, determination and steel needed to overcome the rigours of the league.
Whilst we did see the odd glimpse of magic from Carvalho, we didn't see anywhere near enough of it, especially when the season moved into the winter months and matches were played in cold, wet and windy conditions. That was before the career threatening injury Carv picked up by the Alfreton thug, which I think has done far more mental damage to the lad than the physical injury did to him.
With regards Goncalves, I thought he did alright in the main. He made mistakes and his passing wasn't always spot on, but he did run at defences and did have a burst of pace. I think a bit more experience for him in the Championship would've brought out the player Benfica can see in him, sooner
RE: Joao Carvalho - Reds73 - 29-05-2021
The issue with Carv is the 3m he is costing us each year.
Keep Carv and 3m less budget for Hughton v loaning him out and freeing up some of that budget
RE: Joao Carvalho - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 29-05-2021
I know I am in a majority of one and I can understand that but I don't think he's costing us 3M a year. Mendes and EM will have it worked out between them.