+- COYR NOTTINGHAM FOREST FORUM (https://coyrforestforum.co.uk)
+-- Forum: NOTTINGHAM FOREST - A REBEL CLUB IN A REBEL CITY (https://coyrforestforum.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Nottingham Forest Down Memory Lane (https://coyrforestforum.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=17)
+--- Thread: Joao Carvalho (/showthread.php?tid=433)
RE: Joao Carvalho - Paplane - 27-05-2021
What a load of claptrap. Has Taylor ever thought that the club looks at Carvalho, and the fact he costs them £3m quid a season plus wages and decides he's an expensive flop? That'll be the reason he's been shipped out, not because of his girlfriend's bikini shop.
I've read every comment Taylor made yesterday. He's got an anti EM agenda and this is reflected in every sentence he writes about us.
Example, at a point in time where the club and fans are feeling good about the cat 1 academy award, Taylor adds criticism that it hasn't come sooner, and that the site is cramped etc etc. No need at all.
RE: Joao Carvalho - Sabricadabra - 27-05-2021
I don’t believe what Taylor says there about Carvalho.
RE: Joao Carvalho - Salvatore Matrecano - 27-05-2021
Opinions and all that. For what its worth and at the risk of starting an argument I do agree with what he has said about Carvalho. DT spins stories sometimes and some of his knowledge clearly comes from those who are disgruntled but he doesn't make specific incidents up.
I do find it odd that we have never really nurtured the biggest player investment in the clubs history, he has been royally messed around by the constant managerial instability. He makes an excellent point at the end about young fans saying Carvalho is the most skilful player they have seen. The one player in years we have had that gets fans excited, that makes youngsters want to come and watch the team (why on earth should they? ) and we chuck him on the scrap heap.
The Carvalho ship Im certain has sailed and I realise he is marmite but I just find it a massive shame.
RE: Joao Carvalho - Paplane - 27-05-2021
(27-05-2021, 08:31 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Opinions and all that. For what its worth and at the risk of starting an argument I do agree with what he has said about Carvalho. DT spins stories sometimes and some of his knowledge clearly comes from those who are disgruntled but he doesn't make specific incidents up.
I do find it odd that we have never really nurtured the biggest player investment in the clubs history, he has been royally messed around by the constant managerial instability. He makes an excellent point at the end about young fans saying Carvalho is the most skilful player they have seen. The one player in years we have had that gets fans excited, that makes youngsters want to come and watch the team (why on earth should they? ) and we chuck him on the scrap heap.
The Carvalho ship Im certain has sailed and I realise he is marmite but I just find it a massive shame.
My point was more about Taylor than Carvalho. Id love to see the little man come back and get back in the side but a few managers now have overlooked him. There has to be a reason for that and I very much doubt it has anything to do with bikinis.
RE: Joao Carvalho - wassy04 - 27-05-2021
(27-05-2021, 07:23 AM)Paplane Wrote: What a load of claptrap. Has Taylor ever thought that the club looks at Carvalho, and the fact he costs them £3m quid a season plus wages and decides he's an expensive flop? That'll be the reason he's been shipped out, not because of his girlfriend's bikini shop.
I've read every comment Taylor made yesterday. He's got an anti EM agenda and this is reflected in every sentence he writes about us.
Example, at a point in time where the club and fans are feeling good about the cat 1 academy award, Taylor adds criticism that it hasn't come sooner, and that the site is cramped etc etc. No need at all.
Sorry but I completely disagree. Yes it's clear that he feels like he has been in some way mistreated by the ownership and in particular IV. However I found most of his posts as balanced offering positives and negatives to most situations, albeit more negatives in some cases.
In fact in particular I don't think he offered any criticism directed at EM really, aside from not putting a better structure in below him which surely everyone agrees with?
I agree the academy thing made it sound worse but the criticism was also of the previous regime as he refers to a time pre EM. Also it wasn't so much of a criticism as more of a point that this is good but it just puts us level with other similar clubs, which is true. It does sound like he took that put of context though to be fair.
I get people are loyal to the club and don't like to hear criticisms of it but I honestly feel like the majority of what he says is constructive and balanced. Plus a lot of the things he criticised appear to be getting changed so clearly he's having an impact, seems like a good thing to me.
RE: Joao Carvalho - Salvatore Matrecano - 27-05-2021
This is the thing about Taylor and it is a fair point. Did that exchange about his girlfriend’s shop happen? In my opinion yes, it was too specific not to have done. Is that the reason he was dropped? No, definitely not. There is a bit of 2+2=5 with him sometimes.
As you say he has been overlooked by successive managers who havent given him a chance. The culture here is one of must get results now, there is no time to nurture and develop players because the manager fears for his job if he loses 2 on the bounce. So we dont carry passengers and there can be a reluctance to blood youngsters unless they take their chance straight away.
Then there is Carvalho’s character. He is what he is but DT paints a picture of a polite young man but not one to knock on the door and demand that he plays. Says he could do a bit more, extra training etc to prove a point etc. I just think if for example Peter Taylor was still around he would have done the arm around the shoulder thing, given Joao a bit of confidence then who knows how it would have turned out.
RE: Joao Carvalho - Paplane - 27-05-2021
(27-05-2021, 09:27 AM)wassy04 Wrote:(27-05-2021, 07:23 AM)Paplane Wrote: What a load of claptrap. Has Taylor ever thought that the club looks at Carvalho, and the fact he costs them £3m quid a season plus wages and decides he's an expensive flop? That'll be the reason he's been shipped out, not because of his girlfriend's bikini shop.
I've read every comment Taylor made yesterday. He's got an anti EM agenda and this is reflected in every sentence he writes about us.
Example, at a point in time where the club and fans are feeling good about the cat 1 academy award, Taylor adds criticism that it hasn't come sooner, and that the site is cramped etc etc. No need at all.
Sorry but I completely disagree. Yes it's clear that he feels like he has been in some way mistreated by the ownership and in particular IV. However I found most of his posts as balanced offering positives and negatives to most situations, albeit more negatives in some cases.
In fact in particular I don't think he offered any criticism directed at EM really, aside from not putting a better structure in below him which surely everyone agrees with?
I agree the academy thing made it sound worse but the criticism was also of the previous regime as he refers to a time pre EM. Also it wasn't so much of a criticism as more of a point that this is good but it just puts us level with other similar clubs, which is true. It does sound like he took that put of context though to be fair.
I get people are loyal to the club and don't like to hear criticisms of it but I honestly feel like the majority of what he says is constructive and balanced. Plus a lot of the things he criticised appear to be getting changed so clearly he's having an impact, seems like a good thing to me.
I do realise that I maybe look at things NFFC with rose tinted specs on but to be fair I am a fan of the club. Could Taylor, just for once, have given the club the credit it deserves for their cat 1 attainment and let us/them bask in the glory of it for a few days? Yes, of course he could, but instead he chose to qualify his praise with an overriding criticism.
You say he's constructive and balanced. I disagree. Talking about the circumstances around a bikini shop affecting the club's record signing is pure conjecture. It may have been reported to him from senone within the club but to me it sounds like pure watercooler tittle tattle gossip from a source who knows 10% of really what's going on at the top of the club.
That's all I'm saying on the matter today as I don't want to come across as a sycofpant.
RE: Joao Carvalho - Paplane - 27-05-2021
Back to Carv though, does anyone here think he might come back for pre-season, spend some time with CH and work his way into CH's thinking? I'm hoping it could happen. Just to come back and be given time to impress. Be lovely to see him involved again, if CH can make him effective.
RE: Joao Carvalho - Salvatore Matrecano - 27-05-2021
I would love him to return Pap but just dont think it will happen. As said above I love his skill but I dont think there is a strong determined character there, I dont think he is the sort to want to come back here and prove everyone wrong, thats just the way he is.
The only thing is can we find someone to take him and the outstanding payments owed?
RE: Joao Carvalho - stirred - 27-05-2021
(27-05-2021, 09:48 AM)Paplane Wrote: Back to Carv though, does anyone here think he might come back for pre-season, spend some time with CH and work his way into CH's thinking? I'm hoping it could happen. Just to come back and be given time to impress. Be lovely to see him involved again, if CH can make him effective.
You can’t just put a player in the set-up we had last season and expect them to shine. David Silva would be poor. They need other players to link up with, giving them the ball quickly and giving them options when on the ball. Unless we play with enough of these players and have intent to attack, a player like Carvalho won’t work.
So I think your question is: is CH likely to do that?
RE: Joao Carvalho - Paplane - 27-05-2021
(27-05-2021, 10:02 AM)stirred Wrote:(27-05-2021, 09:48 AM)Paplane Wrote: Back to Carv though, does anyone here think he might come back for pre-season, spend some time with CH and work his way into CH's thinking? I'm hoping it could happen. Just to come back and be given time to impress. Be lovely to see him involved again, if CH can make him effective.
You can’t just put a player in the set-up we had last season and expect them to shine. David Silva would be poor. They need other players to link up with, giving them the ball quickly and giving them options when on the ball. Unless we play with enough of these players and have intent to attack, a player like Carvalho won’t work.
So I think your question is: is CH likely to do that?
Do you not think though that CH may try to be a little bit more expansive next year? He's got to be as our goal return was woeful and teams that don't score goals are never successful, never mind how tight they are at the back.
Carvalho is contracted to the club, the club have few options in an attacking sense at the moment and CH seems to have dispensed with the bomb squad approach of ostracising players. So if Carv comes back and impresses, then it's possible he might be accepted.
RE: Joao Carvalho - wassy04 - 27-05-2021
(27-05-2021, 09:41 AM)Paplane Wrote:(27-05-2021, 09:27 AM)wassy04 Wrote:(27-05-2021, 07:23 AM)Paplane Wrote: What a load of claptrap. Has Taylor ever thought that the club looks at Carvalho, and the fact he costs them £3m quid a season plus wages and decides he's an expensive flop? That'll be the reason he's been shipped out, not because of his girlfriend's bikini shop.
I've read every comment Taylor made yesterday. He's got an anti EM agenda and this is reflected in every sentence he writes about us.
Example, at a point in time where the club and fans are feeling good about the cat 1 academy award, Taylor adds criticism that it hasn't come sooner, and that the site is cramped etc etc. No need at all.
Sorry but I completely disagree. Yes it's clear that he feels like he has been in some way mistreated by the ownership and in particular IV. However I found most of his posts as balanced offering positives and negatives to most situations, albeit more negatives in some cases.
In fact in particular I don't think he offered any criticism directed at EM really, aside from not putting a better structure in below him which surely everyone agrees with?
I agree the academy thing made it sound worse but the criticism was also of the previous regime as he refers to a time pre EM. Also it wasn't so much of a criticism as more of a point that this is good but it just puts us level with other similar clubs, which is true. It does sound like he took that put of context though to be fair.
I get people are loyal to the club and don't like to hear criticisms of it but I honestly feel like the majority of what he says is constructive and balanced. Plus a lot of the things he criticised appear to be getting changed so clearly he's having an impact, seems like a good thing to me.
I do realise that I maybe look at things NFFC with rose tinted specs on but to be fair I am a fan of the club. Could Taylor, just for once, have given the club the credit it deserves for their cat 1 attainment and let us/them bask in the glory of it for a few days? Yes, of course he could, but instead he chose to qualify his praise with an overriding criticism.
You say he's constructive and balanced. I disagree. Talking about the circumstances around a bikini shop affecting the club's record signing is pure conjecture. It may have been reported to him from senone within the club but to me it sounds like pure watercooler tittle tattle gossip from a source who knows 10% of really what's going on at the top of the club.
That's all I'm saying on the matter today as I don't want to come across as a sycofpant.
Fair play, ultimately I guess given the nature of what he's saying being a bit gossipy in nature, we'll likely never know how much of an impact these things have. I guess this comes back to the clubs PR around these sorts of issues. If someone says something and it doesn't get refuted you tend to believe it's true. The lack of any comment from the club does fuel these things.
Although arguably the club also shouldn't have to comment on random gossip about a players girlfriend's shop either! Somewhere in the middle would be beneficial.
Anyway apologies, back to Carv...