+- COYR NOTTINGHAM FOREST FORUM (https://coyrforestforum.co.uk)
+-- Forum: NOTTINGHAM FOREST - A REBEL CLUB IN A REBEL CITY (https://coyrforestforum.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Nottingham Forest Fan Talk - Forest All Over The World (https://coyrforestforum.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest (/showthread.php?tid=842)
RE: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest - Paplane - 29-10-2020
Last night was such a winnable game. We started well for once and began to dominate the game, albeit we didn't create too many chances. Credit to Luton, who refused to do a Derby and throw themselves to the ground every time they were touched. That helped the game flow and so we were able to string a few passes together and we eventually saw the first glimmers of some quality coming through. Then we concede and that knocked us back a bit. The goal was a little unlucky I felt, just fell at their lad's feet who took his chance well. Then the red card set us back again.
All in all a rescued point in the end but could've been 3 had we had just a bit more luck on the night.
RE: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest - zicorice - 29-10-2020
(29-10-2020, 10:20 AM)ozzyten10 Wrote: I’ve stuck up for Yates plenty of times.
Apologies: this started out as a brief post and then became PSP esque as I got more and more angry with how a minority treat our developing players...
Same I've taken pelters for defending him. After his first 3 games (under MON?) it was obvious that he would become a very good player. Being young he said himself he had alot still to learn. When his form inevitably dipped, he naturally received criticism. However some of that criticism was over the top, stating he can't pass, is crap, will never be a footballer etc and some was downright vitriolic.
As others have stated, we have had scapegoats going back to our most successful captain of all time. I get that football is emotional- I am the worst for being a mardy sod all week when we lose - but I wish the criticism could be more balanced.
Yates was very very good in out last two games and I believe he will get better and better. His passing yesterday was very crisp and often progressive, his first touch in tight spots was superb and the way he received the ball under pressure was excellent. These are three areas some people said he didn't do properly?, that his technique was flawed!! He couldn't do the "basics". No doubt there will be a response that he has been working on them in training. As if suddenly having been working on his touch and receiving the ball since the age of 7, it's all suddenly come together by a bit of extra practice. No, he seems to be playing with that confidence we first saw when he broke into the side and his ability is coming through as a result.
Heres the thing: This J curve of performance nearly always happens with young players as they develop. Form is temporary, class is permanent. Osborne, Cash (albeit a positional change sent the curve rapidly upwards), Worrall and maybe Figs (cant remember his age) all have gone or are going through it. At some point Mighten will look the business as a starter and go through it. Oli Burke is looking pretty lively again at Sheff Utd it seems.
Suggesting a player could do with taking out of the firing line or saying a player had a poor game/is struggling for form is very different to saying a player is a pile of sh1t/we should have sold him/I would pay for his taxi/will never be good enough/ is a league one player at best etc.
Chris Cohen did a typically measured interview about how Forest should be in the Prem, but it is a hard club to perform for. There are many reasons and there should be expectations. Players probably shouldn't but do read social media. On a human level how can it not subconsciously have an effect if it is clear that a vocal minority slate you in such a personal manner after an off day at work?
I could go on (and I have), most of the posters on this site tend to be fairer and balanced-its why most of us us this forum...soap box session over.
RE: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest - ThePromisedLand - 29-10-2020
^ great post ^
RE: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest - PsychoStanleyStone - 29-10-2020
(29-10-2020, 11:45 AM)Paplane Wrote: Last night was such a winnable game. We started well for once and began to dominate the game, albeit we didn't create too many chances. Credit to Luton, who refused to do a Derby and throw themselves to the ground every time they were touched. That helped the game flow and so we were able to string a few passes together and we eventually saw the first glimmers of some quality coming through. Then we concede and that knocked us back a bit. The goal was a little unlucky I felt, just fell at their lad's feet who took his chance well. Then the red card set us back again.
All in all a rescued point in the end but could've been 3 had we had just a bit more luck on the night.
i can't fault the effort, the front players from the off were chasing down defenders and the goalie with selfless heroic 40 yard sprints and it worked to an extent but it wasn't a committed strategy, out numbered and thankless, a form of pursuing this concept of 'dominating the game without the ball'.
2 or 3 good crosses into the corrider of uncertainty that favoured Taylor but just out of lunging distance
it seems like a gameplan that makes weaker, slower, less skillful teams look like world beaters, handing them the majority of the pitch and the ball
it's a great gameplan to master and apply ... occassionally ... but as the 10 proved, they have the ability and desire to take the game to Luton ... what if we start the same way we finish games
the highly organised defence is logical but football psychology tends to favour last ditch and having to cope with crisis situations and nullify them, this is what quality defenders actually thrive in, i think back to Psycho's set up against QPR .. we went 3 nil down, yet all the players were organised and prettily positioned, but none of them rolled their sleeves up and made a decisive intervention, they were stood around like bowling pin dummies and cost my fella his job
i think we have to approach some games completely differantly ... ie Lolley, Freeman, Knocky, Sammy and Taylor all starting and pretty much going man for man in most areas and let the class, skill and interplay based on a fully committed high press where we don't predominantly run ourselves into the ground to win a throw in but actually get heaps of chances ... though unlikely this will happen
Just setting up with a completely differant plan by default gives a tactical advantage, opposing team defenders knowing they will only have nano seconds on the ball is the game changer, doesn't have to be for 90 mins, have flick switch
i think for the last half hour last night Hughton's influence on the game was relatively null and void and pure passion and pride and belief were the order of the day
RE: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest - ozzyten10 - 29-10-2020
I do think we don’t take enough risks and let our defenders defend. We seem obsessed with men behind the ball. I actually think a high press and trusting our defenders to defend would see the quality of the squad shine through...
RE: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest - Shawoddyred - 29-10-2020
(29-10-2020, 12:14 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: I do think we don’t take enough risks and let our defenders defend. We seem obsessed with men behind the ball. I actually think a high press and trusting our defenders to defend would see the quality of the squad shine through...
Agree big time with this
RE: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 29-10-2020
Agree with what Zico and Ozzy both said above.
RE: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest - ThePromisedLand - 29-10-2020
Don’t disagree - but we have a totally new back 4.
Hughton is a conservative bloke - but you wouldn’t blame him for allowing the defence to bed in properly before becoming more expansive.
RE: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 29-10-2020
Fair point TPL. How long do we give it?
RE: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 29-10-2020
I want to see Freeman and Knockaert in the same team.
ASAP.
RE: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest - Shawoddyred - 29-10-2020
Me too, Sniffer.
I also want to see Mbe Soh in there, possibly over the top but I genuinely think he could transform us in some ways. I know we've only seen a very limited amount of him, but his energy and forward moving mindset were obvious to me. I think McKenna has some similar qualities and wants to drive us forwards and think they would both be a threat from set pieces. If our defenders are pushing us higher up the pitch (as long as they don't get caught too high too often) then it would help solve a lot of our problems at the top of the pitch by pushing Colback/Yates/Arter further forward into the big gap we currently have in midfield, push up our wingers to an area they can actually take on defenders (rather than being so far towards our own half that the opposition defence just sit off, meaning we can't beat the man easily) and then also leaving our striker less isolated.
RE: Luton Town - Nottingham Forest - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 29-10-2020
Yes. Well said ^^