+- COYR NOTTINGHAM FOREST FORUM (https://coyrforestforum.co.uk)
+-- Forum: NOTTINGHAM FOREST - A REBEL CLUB IN A REBEL CITY (https://coyrforestforum.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Nottingham Forest Fan Talk - Forest All Over The World (https://coyrforestforum.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Nottingham Forest - Newcastle United (/showthread.php?tid=1345)
RE: Nottingham Forest - Newcastle United - wassy04 - 19-03-2023
(19-03-2023, 12:10 PM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:(19-03-2023, 11:18 AM)Paplane Wrote: We have a left back who's played for PSG and Spurs, a right back who plays for Brazil, a centre back who's played for Atletico and a keeper who's played for Real Madrid and PSG. Dont tell me we dont have decent players.
Think you got the full backs the wrong way round Pap but yes you are right.
I don't buy this we don't have any player's who would get in another PL team rubbish.
Navas and Henderson get into many PL teams. Aurier would get in a few squads, Newcastle want Lodi and will probably sign him in the summer, Felipe would get into some teams and Wolves tried to sign him in January, some were saying that Yates could replace Henderson at Liverpool not long ago. MGW is on the verge of the England squad and Manchester City are interested in signing Johnson. I could go on...
I excluded Yates and Johnson as I believe they'd get in most bottom half teams. I think the others listed are good, doesn't mean the other teams don't have players of similar ability though. Likewise you've excluded the other half of the first team that aren't as good.
The point is not to criticise anyway, merely to accept we have the worst squad, particularly given the loss of 5 key players to injury. Seems perfectly acceptable to me, other teams have had years to prepare their squads, and have spent similar amounts. At the time of signing these players, we were not an overly attractive option so it limited the availability.
We correct signed a combination of young players that could eventually reach top half level and established veterans to help them. I don't think anyone could've anticipated how bad the Lingard signing would go, combine that with the fact that Dennis signing has also not worked, it left us short. Had we already had 6 or 7 established players it would've been much easier but we had two, neither of which most would've been confident with at the start of the season.
I don't see why this would be a controversial view, merely an acceptance of our position. That doesn't mean we can't and won't stay up either but expecting survival when the odds are stacked against you, isn't fair either.
RE: Nottingham Forest - Newcastle United - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 19-03-2023
Why are the odds stacked against us?
We have a good enough squad to stay up.
Again you don't mention the coaching staff not getting the best out of our squad, picking odd team selections, safety first tactics, weird substitutions etc etc.
You keep blaming the player's not being good enough, who signed these player's? Who has failed to improve them on the training ground etc.
I like Steve and I don't want him sacked but I can and will criticise him if I think that he and his staff should be doing better with what they have and have had at their disposal this season.
Have they actually improved a player who they have bought in?
RE: Nottingham Forest - Newcastle United - zicorice - 19-03-2023
(19-03-2023, 02:04 PM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote: Why are the odds stacked against us?
We have a good enough squad to stay up.
Again you don't mention the coaching staff not getting the best out of our squad, picking odd team selections, safety first tactics, weird substitutions etc etc.
You keep blaming the player's not being good enough, who signed these player's? Who has failed to improve them on the training ground etc.
I like Steve and I don't want him sacked but I can and will criticise him if I think that he and his staff should be doing better with what they have and have had at their disposal this season.
Have they actually improved a player who they have bought in?
Bit harsh in parts I'd say and offer this in mitigation:
-Once SC was comfortable with his best 13 or 14, we had a decent run.
- Injuries to key players seems to have made the wheels come off at present.
- The money we spent starting almost from scratch equates to an average of about £5 million per signing, so was always likely to be tough.
- recently, no matter what formation or tactics employed, we've given the ball away cheaply and dropped clangers in our own defensive 3rd and even lost concentration at the end of each half.
- I think we have had to put too many players in at once who may not be match fit. (Shelvey Niakhate Wood, Yates).
Our top 2 scorers both have one thing in common-pace. Taiwo- like Niakhate- is certainly no world beater yet, but he has pace and was beginning to utilise it more. His hold up.play had improved too.
I definitely don't see anyone coming in and doing a better job. Our best XI competes in most games I'd say, but as the injuries mount we are certainly not competitive away from home and our fortress has now been breached.
Taiwo Jonno Yates Lodi (compared to 1st month), Boly compared to debut and MGW - until last 3 games- all look improved.
Sticking together crucial....
RE: Nottingham Forest - Newcastle United - Floridared - 19-03-2023
Interesting in what you say about our first 11 competing in most games but as we know they are not available all the time. We are not the only team in the league who don't have all their available players available all the time, everybody is in the same boat at some stage of the season. Perhaps that's why we had a good run with our available first 11 playing against teams who didn't maybe?
However, I can't remember a game we have dominated the opposition and played possession based free flowing football. The best ive seen us play was against Spurs in the league at home and even that we lost.
On the whole, first team or not, I don't think we compete half as much as we should bearing in mind we do have a squad comprising of several international players who for some reason are not performing at the level they should. This I say lays, at the feet of the coaching staff in my opinion.
RE: Nottingham Forest - Newcastle United - wassy04 - 19-03-2023
(19-03-2023, 04:40 PM)Floridared Wrote: Interesting in what you say about our first 11 competing in most games but as we know they are not available all the time. We are not the only team in the league who don't have all their available players available all the time, everybody is in the same boat at some stage of the season. Perhaps that's why we had a good run with our available first 11 playing against teams who didn't maybe?
However, I can't remember a game we have dominated the opposition and played possession based free flowing football. The best ive seen us play was against Spurs in the league at home and even that we lost.
On the whole, first team or not, I don't think we compete half as much as we should bearing in mind we do have a squad comprising of several international players who for some reason are not performing at the level they should. This I say lays, at the feet of the coaching staff in my opinion.
Name a team in the league that doesn't have international players?
Saying every team is affected equally by injury is obviously not true. Each situation is different as is one of the main differentials in the season.
Which internationals or otherwise are currently not performing at the level they should? Is it former backup Newcastle mid Shelvey? Or one game back Niakhate? Or the much lauded Brazil 3rd choice left back?
I just don't get why there is an unwillingness to accept that the other 19 teams have a lot of good players? Have had longer to build their squads and more time to build them up. It's not a bad thing, just an acceptance of where we are.
RE: Nottingham Forest - Newcastle United - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 19-03-2023
What frustrates me is that our coaching staff don't seem to have improved any of our player's that we have purchased.
Dennis for example who did well and established himself in the PL last season. We haven't improved him infact he's probably gone backwards in his development. You would think that having Andy Reid on our coaching staff who knows a thing about wide forward play that he would have been able to help Dennis and make him into a better player.
Williams too, he's not improved either he's probably gone backwards too as has Lingard. O'Brien who was selected in our first few games when everyone was fit so Cooper obviously saw him as a starter is another who didn't push on and develop, same with Toffolo. I could go on but I don't want to bore you all to death so I will shut up now.