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RE: Evangelos Marinakis And Co - wassy04 - 15-09-2021
(15-09-2021, 10:13 AM)Alf Wrote:(15-09-2021, 10:11 AM)wassy04 Wrote:(15-09-2021, 10:07 AM)Alf Wrote: Much like Marthur, Vrentzos is the culprit I'd hold most responsible for the c**k ups.
I personally wouldn't grumble if EM were to stay if the boardroom MO changed.
But f we sell we sell, and who doesn't love America?
I would worry about the intentions of an American bid, particularly if it was in the same vein as Burnley's new owners.
They did the same thing as Man Utd, bought the club and then used the club's money to pay for the purchase and stuck the debt onto the club. I mean I've no idea how this kind of transaction can be legal, really feels like a loop hole that needs to be closed.
Either way, it would be a big worry of mine. Watch Burnley crash and burn over the next few years when their complete lack of investment (due to the new owners) eventually leads them to finally get relegated.
It's a fair concern.
Although I don't think having the same nationality as someone means that you'll operate the same as them too.
No that is very true, although perhaps this is a more common place type transaction in American sports and therefore more likely to come from within that industry?
Just going by the fact that both groups that have done this so far have come from American sports, this is guesswork though.
Either way, it's a risk regardless of the nationality or location of prospective new owners.
RE: Evangelos Marinakis And Co - JollyLolly - 15-09-2021
I think the big man only has one toe in the water with us and seems un-sure if he want to go the whole hog and committing to a rather large and expensive toy. Any investment or losses he has made (I am sure he's about even at present) will be lost in his group of companies accounts somewhere. The real spend has now begun to hit him, major investment required in a poor squad, new shiney stand and ground improvements plus what ever happened to the extension & refurbishment of the training facilities (planning was granted 3 months ago) but not started? Here in lies the clue to his thoughts and intentions, I believe non commitments speak louder then actions or words and even the clubs PR.
RE: Evangelos Marinakis And Co - JollyLolly - 15-09-2021
Tricky, regards your comments to the supposed £2 million spend to date of the planning works associated with the new stand, these figures seem excessive and I believe they are more of a PR excesise for the Forest fans showing commitment by the owners. If and it's a big if the big man is indeed selling then having planning in place for the stand, improvements plus training ground up-grade enhances the selling price so no money lost there only gained!
RE: Evangelos Marinakis And Co - Salvatore Matrecano - 15-09-2021
(15-09-2021, 10:11 AM)wassy04 Wrote:(15-09-2021, 10:07 AM)Alf Wrote: Much like Marthur, Vrentzos is the culprit I'd hold most responsible for the c**k ups.
I personally wouldn't grumble if EM were to stay if the boardroom MO changed.
But f we sell we sell, and who doesn't love America?
I would worry about the intentions of an American bid, particularly if it was in the same vein as Burnley's new owners.
They did the same thing as Man Utd, bought the club and then used the club's money to pay for the purchase and stuck the debt onto the club. I mean I've no idea how this kind of transaction can be legal, really feels like a loop hole that needs to be closed.
Either way, it would be a big worry of mine. Watch Burnley crash and burn over the next few years when their complete lack of investment (due to the new owners) eventually leads them to finally get relegated.
This^
RE: Evangelos Marinakis And Co - Alf - 15-09-2021
If we American owners do look likely to buy at any point, it would be wise if the likes of DT raised these questions prior to the buying when any investors become known.
RE: Evangelos Marinakis And Co - Salvatore Matrecano - 15-09-2021
I would recommend people have a read of this
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/8/10/how-convicted-criminal-can-buy-famous-english-football-club-launder-money
Or have a watch/listen.
https://www.ajiunit.com/investigation/the-men-who-sell-football-corruption/
Yes I know it is Al Jazeera but it is good investigative journalism
RE: Evangelos Marinakis And Co - Username - 15-09-2021
(15-09-2021, 08:54 AM)Paplane Wrote: Its just words. He was in an interview situation on the day of his takeover, and said what he said to downplay expectation of fireworks happening at the club under his new ownership. He's got to sound positive at that moment in time.
Mark Arthur coming out with his 'we're serious about promotion' line was a marketing strategy to sell season tickets and was said when Arthur knew exactly that promotion was an absolutely unachievable ambition that season. Completely different.
How can it be different, “it’s just words”
RE: Evangelos Marinakis And Co - Alf - 15-09-2021
(15-09-2021, 11:05 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: I would recommend people have a read of this
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/8/10/how-convicted-criminal-can-buy-famous-english-football-club-launder-money
Or have a watch/listen.
https://www.ajiunit.com/investigation/the-men-who-sell-football-corruption/
Yes I know it is Al Jazeera but it is good investigative journalism
I'll give them a gander.
But you know what, whoever runs us, I just want them to give a shit about the fans tbh, and put some care into the club. It been very rare over the past 20 odd years that I've actually felt anyone has.
Doughty clearly did from an emotional standpoint, but Marthur's one of the biggest ****s in our history, and seemed more intent on teaching fans a lesson and protecting his own interests than doing what was right for the club.
RE: Evangelos Marinakis And Co - Jean_claude_killy - 15-09-2021
(15-09-2021, 10:11 AM)wassy04 Wrote:(15-09-2021, 10:07 AM)Alf Wrote: Much like Marthur, Vrentzos is the culprit I'd hold most responsible for the c**k ups.
I personally wouldn't grumble if EM were to stay if the boardroom MO changed.
But f we sell we sell, and who doesn't love America?
I would worry about the intentions of an American bid, particularly if it was in the same vein as Burnley's new owners.
They did the same thing as Man Utd, bought the club and then used the club's money to pay for the purchase and stuck the debt onto the club. I mean I've no idea how this kind of transaction can be legal, really feels like a loop hole that needs to be closed.
Either way, it would be a big worry of mine. Watch Burnley crash and burn over the next few years when their complete lack of investment (due to the new owners) eventually leads them to finally get relegated.
The kind of transactions which load the debt onto the club or business are quite common; most hedge funds use that kind of tactic when they buy public listed companies, take them private and then start to sell off the assets to pay down the debt.
SISU (who I think are American) did exactly that when they purchased Coventry; they sold their share of the ground back to the Alan Higgs trust, they then sold off their training ground; once everything that was not nailed down had been sold off they then went into Admin, buying back the shell of the Club under the name of Otium Entertainment.
As unpalatable as that kind of business conduct is, I just cannot see it ending anytime soon and I do not think there is too much the football authorities can do, other than tighten up the fit and proper person test.
RE: Evangelos Marinakis And Co - Username - 15-09-2021
(15-09-2021, 09:05 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Sniff is correct and I think we should be careful what we wish for.
EM is a proven winner in all businesses he has taken on, Forest has been failing until now but lessons have been learned the hard way and hopefully steps taken to rectify.
What do you think we will get if he decides the investment is too much and the reward too low? If he walks he will presumably sell but to who? The majority of EFL clubs who sell up now go to faceless organisations of businessmen, have a look at the recent documentary on Christopher Samuelson if you dont believe me. How do you think half wits like Alonso, Tony Xia at Villa get their fake wealth.
Best case scenario we do get some Yanks, a JJM type, do you think they will be an instant success? Chances are they will make exactly the same mistakes EM has, put someone in charge who has never worked in the UK, think they can get is promoted on the strength of buying a striker who has knocked in a few goals in the US/Mexico/Egypt etc, sack the manager when it doesnt work in 6 months.
In my opinion we are far better off sticking with someone who knows who to operate a Champions League club and who has their own funds to secure our future.
At no point have I advocated EM leave.
Just stating the position as I see it, he has no clue what it takes / is needed to get out of the division (and by that I don’t mean to League One).
He just keeps rolling the dice hoping for a different outcome.
RE: Evangelos Marinakis And Co - Strawberry Avenger - 15-09-2021
(15-09-2021, 10:07 AM)Alf Wrote: Much like Marthur, Vrentzos is the culprit I'd hold most responsible for the c**k ups.
I personally wouldn't grumble if EM were to stay if the boardroom MO changed.
But f we sell we sell, and who doesn't love America?
Russian. China. Libya. Iran. North Korea. Iraq. Afghanistan. Venezuela. (And all the other countries it regime changed.). Assange.
Back on topic.
Mr. V gave it his best shot. It 'almost' worked with Aitor (and a £20 million gamble on two players.). But there's only so many times you can Darth Vader quality managers before the razor hovers above your very own knot.
It took them far too long to realise the Championship is not the Greek League and you can't translate the culture. (Had they bought a sister club in Greece, they may have had more success?). You need a certain kind of player for this league. Something Billy Davies understood very well. That MoN understood very well. That Keane understood very well. (The latter two would have done much better given time. Most of the candidates would have done. Given time.)
They just didn't want to hear it. They were impatient for success. And that's disruptive. Doesn't matter how good a manager is. You end up with a mish mash of ideas. It's costly on so many levels.
Hubris comes at a price. In money. And the prestige of being rock bottom.
It's their dime, I guess.
SA.
RE: Evangelos Marinakis And Co - wassy04 - 15-09-2021
(15-09-2021, 11:17 AM)Jean_claude_killy Wrote:(15-09-2021, 10:11 AM)wassy04 Wrote:(15-09-2021, 10:07 AM)Alf Wrote: Much like Marthur, Vrentzos is the culprit I'd hold most responsible for the c**k ups.
I personally wouldn't grumble if EM were to stay if the boardroom MO changed.
But f we sell we sell, and who doesn't love America?
I would worry about the intentions of an American bid, particularly if it was in the same vein as Burnley's new owners.
They did the same thing as Man Utd, bought the club and then used the club's money to pay for the purchase and stuck the debt onto the club. I mean I've no idea how this kind of transaction can be legal, really feels like a loop hole that needs to be closed.
Either way, it would be a big worry of mine. Watch Burnley crash and burn over the next few years when their complete lack of investment (due to the new owners) eventually leads them to finally get relegated.
The kind of transactions which load the debt onto the club or business are quite common; most hedge funds use that kind of tactic when they buy public listed companies, take them private and then start to sell off the assets to pay down the debt.
SISU (who I think are American) did exactly that when they purchased Coventry; they sold their share of the ground back to the Alan Higgs trust, they then sold off their training ground; once everything that was not nailed down had been sold off they then went into Admin, buying back the shell of the Club under the name of Otium Entertainment.
As unpalatable as that kind of business conduct is, I just cannot see it ending anytime soon and I do not think there is too much the football authorities can do, other than tighten up the fit and proper person test.
I think you could give clubs protected status of some kind and make it so that you can't use the clubs assets to pay for the purchase. I'm sure I read something on it after the Burnley takeover, although I can't profess to understand the laws in this scenario