Should We Buy A New Goalkeeper?

[ThePromisedLand]

I certainly don’t subscribe to the view that the keeper position is a priority to fix.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Is it just me or does Pantilimon look better & more comfortable now he's under the tutelage of Jim McDonagh?

Yes.

SA.  :cool:

September '77 Clough spent £270,000 on goalkeeper Peter Shilton & in those days that was a massive sum, but Clough was adamant he was signed on the cheap from Stoke.

"We were mad in many people’s eyes. But Peter Taylor and I knew our history in advance. History now tells us Shilton was worth twice the price. We weren’t mad at all, we were magic," he later said.

The reason he thought it was a bargain was because he understood Shilton "was worth 10 points a season" (15 in modern money), because that's what having a good goalkeeper brings to your defence.

Peter Taylor, as a goalkeeper himself, would have known that as well as anyone.

Incidentally it was at Mansfield's ground where they took their last look at him before making their bid.

This is why I appreciate us hiring a specialist goalkeeping coach, in Jim McDonagh, for this specialist position, likewise Guppy for our wide men, & Roy can teach a thing or two about midfield & defence.

At Liverpool they've gone even further & have a specialist throw-in's coach.

Players need people around them who can call out their mistakes, help them rectify them & develop as players, not just youth players, but everyone, there's always room to learn & improve.

To many modern coaches actually do limited coaching, they'll do basic drills, fitness work & work on game patterns, but many won't go beyond that to working on individuals, enhancing their skills & helping them to develop new ones.

Under the new management regime that is no longer the case as Martin comes from the school of thought that you're never to young, or old, to learn new tricks & I do think Jim's been working on Costel.

I'm not saying he's become the new Peter Shilton, but he & the defence do look slightly more comfortable & confident now & his distribution seemed to have improved a little bit too.

Aye.  A good keeper is worth 10 points.

Ty for the backstory to the Peter Shilton signing.  

But in contrast to the dinosaur stone throwing against MoN's appointment by some you paint a more progressive picture of Martin with his approach to new skill learning for all players.

That is born out by the improvement to Pants, the defence...Colback...Grabban, Lolley etc.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Ps. I like a lot of the historical contexts in your Posts, NG3.

It highlights our ascent and decline...and why. And what the method in the madness was behind such footballing decisions.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

History is important or you are doomed to repeat it. Forest are proof of that in the last 20 years.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

I certainly don’t subscribe to the view that the keeper position is a priority to fix.

After the last 5 matches I feel we have less priorities than I earlier thought, we've a number of players still to try out, & the emergence of Yates has been a huge bonus. I think we only really have one or two question marks with regards first XI & most of the rest is stuff we've been looking to do for several years now, like have enough cover so that we can always have 2 functioning fullbacks.

I think most of the spine is OK now, we just need a couple of splashes of quality, to take weight off Lolley & to move on ten ton of deadwood for a couple of half decent players where we need cover. I don't think we need another 20 player intake.

Yates has been a huge plus.  A young Keane-psycho in the making.  What we've been crying out for.

DCM.  Box to box.  Cm.  robust.  Athletic.  Will to win.  Should have had an assist vs Preston.

Scored a brace of goals recently.

Aye.  Get rid of the dead wood with some real 'splashes of quality.'  And for the love of god some depth at fullback.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

January transformed the spine of the side. No question.

The 3 centre haves were real finds...with Worrall to come back in the Summer.

With Yates! ...and the prospect of Pele too.

Bonatini up front.

I'd been banging on about the spine for years and years and years...and...

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

But in contrast to the dinosaur stone throwing against MoN's appointment by some you paint a more progressive picture of Martin with his approach to new skill learning for all players.

When Martin was first appointed at Wycombe Wanderers the club wasn't in a healthy position & had yo-yo'd between the conference & the division below, lost their ground & had to move & their coffers were empty, most of the squad were part time, or amateur & he had no transfer budget & no saleable assets & because of players being part time & amateur, only 2 training sessions a week.

He had to work with what he had, he had to improve them, he had to develop them & he did, & left them 6th in the division below ours.

This isn't a man who learned his trade from the regulation issue training manual, this man learned his trade in the field, who earned his rise from amateur non-league to European finals, both as a player & as a manager & this is a manager who doesn't need mountains of gold, he just needs enough ready men to believe in the cause & who are able to learn & willing to fight.

Martin is a football manager.

Amen.  Learned his trade in the lower leagues and worked his way up.  A glittering cv.

SA.

[GaribaldiRED]

Sorry guys but I have to disagree. In my mind it’s not longer enough to have a keeper that do the basics okey. W have to aim for more than that. But my biggest problem with Pants is that he is not capable of distribute the ball to a Forest player when going long. There is no aim what so ever and it’s very painful to watch. I fully expect Martin fix this in the summer.

[PsychoStanleyStone]

Is it just me or does Pantilimon look better & more comfortable now he's under the tutelage of Jim McDonagh?

Yes.

SA.  :cool:

This is why I appreciate us hiring a specialist goalkeeping coach, in Jim McDonagh, for this specialist position, likewise Guppy for our wide men, & Roy can teach a thing or two about midfield & defence.

At Liverpool they've gone even further & have a specialist throw-in's coach.

Players need people around them who can call out their mistakes, help them rectify them & develop as players, not just youth players, but everyone, there's always room to learn & improve.

To many modern coaches actually do limited coaching, they'll do basic drills, fitness work & work on game patterns, but many won't go beyond that to working on individuals, enhancing their skills & helping them to develop new ones.

I think our whole defence has transformed, seem totally solid, organised, together and resolute.  I quite like Pants, definitely the sort of player and position where confidence and self belief are priceless and he seems to have that, a mistake or uncertainty or lack of appreciation can damage everything so I want to keep him on and ideally keep similar players in front of him, particularly Big Ben, Milo and Robertson and many of the others in the squad.

Appreciate and agree with all your comments above, the gk coach, RK, Guppy, M o N can put specialised psychological strength and belief into the players.  From what I have seen I like interactions between the players, all seems very positive.  

To be fair a lot of the team spirit during AK's tenure seemed to be coming good but always felt that for 1 happy player there would be a couple not so happy, some even totally blanked out.

[Strawberry Avenger]

But in contrast to the dinosaur stone throwing against MoN's appointment by some you paint a more progressive picture of Martin with his approach to new skill learning for all players.

When Martin was first appointed at Wycombe Wanderers the club wasn't in a healthy position & had yo-yo'd between the conference & the division below, lost their ground & had to move & their coffers were empty, most of the squad were part time, or amateur & he had no transfer budget & no saleable assets & because of players being part time & amateur, only 2 training sessions a week.

He had to work with what he had, he had to improve them, he had to develop them & he did, & left them 6th in the division below ours.

This isn't a man who learned his trade from the regulation issue training manual, this man learned his trade in the field, who earned his rise from amateur non-league to European finals, both as a player & as a manager & this is a manager who doesn't need mountains of gold, he just needs enough ready men to believe in the cause & who are able to learn & willing to fight.

Martin is a football manager.

Amen.  Learned his trade in the lower leagues and worked his way up.  A glittering cv.

SA.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

I disagree that the defence is transformed, we have 2 new centre backs thrown together, if Dawson and Figs were fit as in November I doubt either would be playing. Is Pants more comfortable? He looks much the same to me. And despite everything we are still 6th place in league for goals conceded.

Suspect its that we have had a few distractions, managerial change, new players, injuries, crap referees and we have temporarily forgotten about our scapegoat.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

I disagree that the defence is transformed, we have 2 new centre backs thrown together, if Dawson and Figs were fit as in November I doubt either would be playing. Is Pants more comfortable? He looks much the same to me. And despite everything we are still 6th place in league for goals conceded.

Suspect its that we have had a few distractions, managerial change, new players, injuries, crap referees and we have temporarily forgotten about our scapegoat.

To be fair...

Pants has dropped some clangers and I dare say cost us one or two points.

On the other hand, he has shown signs of improvement since Jim Mcdonagh was appointed.