A Case for the Offense

[Jean_claude_killy]

It amazes me that complete arm chair amateurs should think that they know better than the manager; a manger who works with the players every day of the week, a manger who knows the strengths and weeknesses of each and every player in the squad, knows how they have trained, how they are fitness wise and how they are behaving; and then has to weigh up the opposition.

Having an opinion is one thing; taking it far too seriously is another.

Talking shite is far easier than having to deal with issues and then select a team.

It amazes me you actually posted that on a forum!!!

I dont think forums are for you then, as thats all about amateurs providing thoughts (positive and negative), we are all arm chair fans at moment, but some of us amateurs do go to games, have done for years and can form pretty good opinions and offer advice.

I for one dont think Sabri is reading this and think, wow going to change everything i believe in, but he does end of the day have to look in the mirror and grow, and develop. He gets paid millions to train and pick team We get paid nothing to post on forums, but why cant we say what we feel then?

The comments you make are standard excuses, and more akin to keeping your head in the sand!

Every Manager does know his squad, i guess you have never questioned a selection in your life, or why we bought him, why did we sell him or why didnt we go after him??


The likes of Platt, Megson, Martin O Neill, Kinnear, Warburton, Davies, McLeish, Cotterial, Freedman, etc etc (too many to type) did you want them all to stay, they new their squads inside out as well?

You are bit sheep like, and thats great, blindly follow and be happy. Some of us crave a little a more, and not so easily satisfied.

But, i do think you are the one talking shite and knocking posters opinions.

Another masterclass in arrogance and stupidity.

Anyone who has the temerity to question the garbage you post is rewarded with insults and bile.

Then again, your opinion has always been so precious

[zicorice]

It amazes me that complete arm chair amateurs should think that they know better than the manager; a manger who works with the players every day of the week, a manger who knows the strengths and weeknesses of each and every player in the squad, knows how they have trained, how they are fitness wise and how they are behaving; and then has to weigh up the opposition.

Having an opinion is one thing; taking it far too seriously is another.

Talking shite is far easier than having to deal with issues and then select a team.

It amazes me you actually posted that on a forum!!!

I dont think forums are for you then, as thats all about amateurs providing thoughts (positive and negative), we are all arm chair fans at moment, but some of us amateurs do go to games, have done for years and can form pretty good opinions and offer advice.

I for one dont think Sabri is reading this and think, wow going to change everything i believe in, but he does end of the day have to look in the mirror and grow, and develop. He gets paid millions to train and pick team We get paid nothing to post on forums, but why cant we say what we feel.

The comments you make are standard excuses, and more akin to keeping your head in the sand!

Every player does know his squad, i guess you have never questioned a selection in your life, or why we bought him, why did we sell him or why didnt we go after him??


The likes of Platt, Megson, Martin O Neill, Kinnear, Warburton, Davies, McLeish, Cotterial, Freedman, etc etc (too many to type) did you want them all to stay?

You are bit sheep like, and thats great, blindly folloand be happy. Some of us more crave a little a more, and not so easily satisfied.

But, i do think you are the one talking shite and knocking posters opinions.

In fairness, I read it slightly differently. The highlighted sentence being key. Over the last couple of days I have read all sorts, on Twitter, FB and other forums, some ridiculous stuff including  "Sabri Out". On here a bit more circumspect thankfully.

I certainly challenged some of the managers you listed and would continue to do so at the right time and in the right manner. Personally, I thought Sundays car crash was quite predictable and could gave still happened if we had picked our best available XI and different formation. What he couldn't legislate for, was normally reliable players who have been superb (eg. Sow & Ribeiro) having massive off days from first to last whistle. 

Our squad is very thin, so losing Cash and having a half fit Lolley was always going to hurt us, especially against a highly motivated and decent young Barnsley side. If they had a Grabban, they would be at the higher end of the league.

That said, his team selection has rightly been questioned too. Carvalho is a strange one, not even making bench? Is he sold? Is he injured? Formation the other day would have been seen as genius if we had got the 0-0 or even sneaked a win on the break.

On balance though, best manager we've had since Billy (and without the baggage), getting us into top 6 with probably the weakest squad out of the top 7.

[Widdow]

It amazes me that complete arm chair amateurs should think that they know better than the manager; a manger who works with the players every day of the week, a manger who knows the strengths and weeknesses of each and every player in the squad, knows how they have trained, how they are fitness wise and how they are behaving; and then has to weigh up the opposition.

Having an opinion is one thing; taking it far too seriously is another.

Talking shite is far easier than having to deal with issues and then select a team.

It amazes me you actually posted that on a forum!!!

I dont think forums are for you then, as thats all about amateurs providing thoughts (positive and negative), we are all arm chair fans at moment, but some of us amateurs do go to games, have done for years and can form pretty good opinions and offer advice.

I for one dont think Sabri is reading this and think, wow going to change everything i believe in, but he does end of the day have to look in the mirror and grow, and develop. He gets paid millions to train and pick team We get paid nothing to post on forums, but why cant we say what we feel then?

The comments you make are standard excuses, and more akin to keeping your head in the sand!

Every Manager does know his squad, i guess you have never questioned a selection in your life, or why we bought him, why did we sell him or why didnt we go after him??


The likes of Platt, Megson, Martin O Neill, Kinnear, Warburton, Davies, McLeish, Cotterial, Freedman, etc etc (too many to type) did you want them all to stay, they new their squads inside out as well?

You are bit sheep like, and thats great, blindly follow and be happy. Some of us crave a little a more, and not so easily satisfied.

But, i do think you are the one talking shite and knocking posters opinions.

Another masterclass in arrogance and stupidity.

Anyone who has the temerity to question the garbage you post is rewarded with insults and bile.

Then again, your opinion has always been so precious

Again, you didnt respond with anything apart from abuse, yes an arrogant answer, but cannot see the stupidity.

You can question the garbage, but i think you were the first one (and not for the first time) decided to reply with insults saying i talk shite!

If you are just an arm chair amateur, then stick to that, dont come on forum where fans discuss games, performances, styles of play, players and managers etc and then just knock posters who want to add to it. 

I understand if you have a different opinion, but back that up.

As i said, did you ever question the likes of Platt, Megson, Martin O Neill, Kinnear, Warburton, Davies, McLeish, Cotterial, Freedman, etc etc (too many to type) 

Did you want them all to stay, did you never question them? 

Some of our managers have been royally shafted by owners, many like Davies dug their own grave.

Now tell me was a defensive style and changing formation to add more defenders against Barnsley a good decision then? 

Sabri was the first to admit he made a mistake.

I want the best for Forest, and agree far easier to say things on here, rather than actually do that. Unfortunately i am not in that privilege position, would love to be and get paid well for it. I can offer my opinion, precious or not, thats why i signed up for this forum, are you saying not to offer such opinions?

[Widdow]

It amazes me that complete arm chair amateurs should think that they know better than the manager; a manger who works with the players every day of the week, a manger who knows the strengths and weeknesses of each and every player in the squad, knows how they have trained, how they are fitness wise and how they are behaving; and then has to weigh up the opposition.

Having an opinion is one thing; taking it far too seriously is another.

Talking shite is far easier than having to deal with issues and then select a team.

It amazes me you actually posted that on a forum!!!

I dont think forums are for you then, as thats all about amateurs providing thoughts (positive and negative), we are all arm chair fans at moment, but some of us amateurs do go to games, have done for years and can form pretty good opinions and offer advice.

I for one dont think Sabri is reading this and think, wow going to change everything i believe in, but he does end of the day have to look in the mirror and grow, and develop. He gets paid millions to train and pick team We get paid nothing to post on forums, but why cant we say what we feel.

The comments you make are standard excuses, and more akin to keeping your head in the sand!

Every player does know his squad, i guess you have never questioned a selection in your life, or why we bought him, why did we sell him or why didnt we go after him??


The likes of Platt, Megson, Martin O Neill, Kinnear, Warburton, Davies, McLeish, Cotterial, Freedman, etc etc (too many to type) did you want them all to stay?

You are bit sheep like, and thats great, blindly folloand be happy. Some of us more crave a little a more, and not so easily satisfied.

But, i do think you are the one talking shite and knocking posters opinions.

In fairness, I read it slightly differently. The highlighted sentence being key. Over the last couple of days I have read all sorts, on Twitter, FB and other forums, some ridiculous stuff including  "Sabri Out". On here a bit more circumspect thankfully.

I certainly challenged some of the managers you listed and would continue to do so at the right time and in the right manner. Personally, I thought Sundays car crash was quite predictable and could gave still happened if we had picked our best available XI and different formation. What he couldn't legislate for, was normally reliable players who have been superb (eg. Sow & Ribeiro) having massive off days from first to last whistle. 

Our squad is very thin, so losing Cash and having a half fit Lolley was always going to hurt us, especially against a highly motivated and decent young Barnsley side. If they had a Grabban, they would be at the higher end of the league.

That said, his team selection has rightly been questioned too. Carvalho is a strange one, not even making bench? Is he sold? Is he injured? Formation the other day would have been seen as genius if we had got the 0-0 or even sneaked a win on the break.

On balance though, best manager we've had since Billy (and without the baggage), getting us into top 6 with probably the weakest squad out of the top 7.

I didnt read it wrong, that poster has trolled me many times before and is always the one first to insult.

Can you show me where i took Having an opinion and then taking it far too seriously ?

Please show me what i did to take it too far, did i call out any players, did i say Sabri should go? No cos i dont believe that I just want him to learn and i am sure he will. 

He also needs to be backed by the owners, and the recruitment "powers that be" in Modesto and Angio, do need to buck up their ideas and help the head coach, and not leave him with a thin squad, and lack of back up! 

I wonder who is responsible for scouting players in UK, lower leagues etc, plenty of quality players out there that need an opportunity.

Which is another things i have continually said, especially after the January window.

[zicorice]

It amazes me that complete arm chair amateurs should think that they know better than the manager; a manger who works with the players every day of the week, a manger who knows the strengths and weeknesses of each and every player in the squad, knows how they have trained, how they are fitness wise and how they are behaving; and then has to weigh up the opposition.

Having an opinion is one thing; taking it far too seriously is another.

Talking shite is far easier than having to deal with issues and then select a team.

It amazes me you actually posted that on a forum!!!

I dont think forums are for you then, as thats all about amateurs providing thoughts (positive and negative), we are all arm chair fans at moment, but some of us amateurs do go to games, have done for years and can form pretty good opinions and offer advice.

I for one dont think Sabri is reading this and think, wow going to change everything i believe in, but he does end of the day have to look in the mirror and grow, and develop. He gets paid millions to train and pick team We get paid nothing to post on forums, but why cant we say what we feel.

The comments you make are standard excuses, and more akin to keeping your head in the sand!

Every player does know his squad, i guess you have never questioned a selection in your life, or why we bought him, why did we sell him or why didnt we go after him??


The likes of Platt, Megson, Martin O Neill, Kinnear, Warburton, Davies, McLeish, Cotterial, Freedman, etc etc (too many to type) did you want them all to stay?

You are bit sheep like, and thats great, blindly folloand be happy. Some of us more crave a little a more, and not so easily satisfied.

But, i do think you are the one talking shite and knocking posters opinions.

In fairness, I read it slightly differently. The highlighted sentence being key. Over the last couple of days I have read all sorts, on Twitter, FB and other forums, some ridiculous stuff including  "Sabri Out". On here a bit more circumspect thankfully.

I certainly challenged some of the managers you listed and would continue to do so at the right time and in the right manner. Personally, I thought Sundays car crash was quite predictable and could gave still happened if we had picked our best available XI and different formation. What he couldn't legislate for, was normally reliable players who have been superb (eg. Sow & Ribeiro) having massive off days from first to last whistle. 

Our squad is very thin, so losing Cash and having a half fit Lolley was always going to hurt us, especially against a highly motivated and decent young Barnsley side. If they had a Grabban, they would be at the higher end of the league.

That said, his team selection has rightly been questioned too. Carvalho is a strange one, not even making bench? Is he sold? Is he injured? Formation the other day would have been seen as genius if we had got the 0-0 or even sneaked a win on the break.

On balance though, best manager we've had since Billy (and without the baggage), getting us into top 6 with probably the weakest squad out of the top 7.

I didnt read it wrong, that poster has trolled me many times before and is always the one first to insult.

Can you show me where i took Having an opinion and then taking it far too seriously ?

Show me what i did take it too far, did i call out any players, did i say Sabri should go, no cos i dont believe that I just want him to learn and i am sure he will. He also needs to be backed by the owners, and the recruitment powers that be do need to buck up their ideas and help the head coach, and not leave him with a thin squad, and lack of back up! 

Which is another things i have continually said, especially after the January window.

Can't believe I'm getting into this but.......

Well for starters youth, he never said it was aimed at you, it was on a public forum so was read by all. In terms of general reactions across various forums I agree with what he said. I am totally immersed in this exciting end of season so have been reading everything from the Evening Post comments, Twitter, WhatsApp groups, FB etc and comment only here  because it is more balanced without extremes and his point that I highlighted holds true across the full landscape.

I don't remember seeing anyone call you out specifically for the things you list and until your little hissy fit I had not assumed he had aimed it at you specifically and probably no one else had-except you.

So in answer to your list of "Show me this and show me that" there is no need as I wasn't calling you out for anything. A quick look back at your recent posts seems to confirm this and like the rest of us you have a squeeky bum and was disappointed on Sunday, questioning the performance and the tactics. Which is as you state the point of a forum.

If you have a genuine issue with the other guy "trolling" (couldn't see it myself but perspective is truth eh?) then take it up with Sniff, he runs a very tight ship.

I think it's all just a big case of PMT for us all....Pre Match Tension. Chill. Sabri's got this.

[Widdow]

Haha definitely got PMT

Don’t know how high that will be intensified in play offs.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

I really do think the derby equaliser knocked the stuffing out of us. Until then I was reasonably happy with results. I also think we’ve had teams with something to play for ever since we started back. No easy games in the championship but with teams either desperate for points at the bottom or trying to scramble into the top 6, we have had a particularly hard set of fixtures. Derby were on a run and we gave a really good performance. Swansea threw everything at us and Sammy came up and saved us. Fulham - a gnats whisker in that game. Barnsley was very poor indeed. Tonight defines us. Can we stay calm and get a win or a draw? I think yes!

Totally agree with that.

Tonight Forest are the team to play for something, Stoke have nothing to play for. Lets see how we perform, then of course if we get the result, its all about the Playoffs!

This is when it gets really interesting. The play offs are a different ball game, a different competition like Sabri said. More like a cup tie than a league game. I think we'll see a different approach from Sabri.

[zicorice]

I really do think the derby equaliser knocked the stuffing out of us. Until then I was reasonably happy with results. I also think we’ve had teams with something to play for ever since we started back. No easy games in the championship but with teams either desperate for points at the bottom or trying to scramble into the top 6, we have had a particularly hard set of fixtures. Derby were on a run and we gave a really good performance. Swansea threw everything at us and Sammy came up and saved us. Fulham - a gnats whisker in that game. Barnsley was very poor indeed. Tonight defines us. Can we stay calm and get a win or a draw? I think yes!

Totally agree with that.

Tonight Forest are the team to play for something, Stoke have nothing to play for. Lets see how we perform, then of course if we get the result, its all about the Playoffs!

This is when it gets really interesting. The play offs are a different ball game, a different competition like Sabri said. More like a cup tie than a league game. I think we'll see a different approach from Sabri.

Think so too. Just glad to be in it.

[Sabricadabra]

Leeds & West Brom have two of the best squads in the league. Leeds have spent millions to get one of the best coaches in the world and play a different style to everyone else as a result. We don’t have the budget to bring in better players than everyone else. Brentford have a clear plan which they have followed diligently for years regardless of change of coach (what we should do...)

In the Premier League Klopp focussed on making Liverpool defensively strong and adept at counterattacking first of all before adding players to make them play a more expansive game. Even now when they score they immediately sit deep in that well organised shape and invite the other team on to hit them on the counter.

A balance between strong defence and incisive attack is obviously best, but I prefer to see a coach focus on making the defence tight first of all. It means we’re always in games. There have only been a couple of times this season where we have been well beaten. We do attack when needed in games, but overall Lamouchi has the right approach.

Fair points, and again as i said in my post, we have spent the season developing the defense and a style of play that Sabri thinks gets the best out of the squad.

Now the next steps are to perhaps take the breaks off in games against certain team, most recently against Barnsley, go for it rather than play for the point. End of day we ended up with zero points.

And of course Sabri needs to learn from this season as Bielsa did, as Klopp did, and now he has a defensive style, make sure the players he brings in can play it, and also bring in quality players who can give him options in attack, and give him the confidence to play.

I have bigged up the Brentford method for years, we havent gone down that route, and reason we have continual problems.

Also, look at Norwich last year, didnt spend big but attacking football got them to the Premier League, and Sheff Utd, developed a style of play which was both defensive with 3 central defenders but attacking, and that is doing well in the Premier League. (wilder a manager i suggested for Forest when he was at Northampton).

The football at moment is sterile, and lacklustre, and late goals derail all that hard defensive work. The only plan b i have seen was on Sunday against Barnsley to play 5 at the back and make it more defensive, it simply didnt work. He has players to attack, but for whatever reason doesnt trust them, so next season, needs to rectify that.

Sabri now has an extended deal, has had his eyes opened by the Championship, and i hope will be all the more stronger for it next season (albeit a very short pre season to change much for next season) but he has just got to attack teams and stop worrying about them, they're not that many of the ilk of Leeds, West Brom, Fulham and Brentford in the league, and with Leeds going up i can see 2 of that group joining leeds in the EPL.

I just don’t agree that he has got to attack teams more or that he should stop using his tactical nous to prepare for each new opponent. That is his strength. Overall he’s doing a good job.

Assuming we are in the play offs what he will have learned most is that his approach is an effective one in the Championship. Considering the club’s expenditure he has done a good job to get us to where we are. Most games at this level are tight and won by the odd goal. With the addition of a few more suitable players he has provided a blueprint for improvement for next season.

[wassy04]

Leeds & West Brom have two of the best squads in the league. Leeds have spent millions to get one of the best coaches in the world and play a different style to everyone else as a result. We don’t have the budget to bring in better players than everyone else. Brentford have a clear plan which they have followed diligently for years regardless of change of coach (what we should do...)

In the Premier League Klopp focussed on making Liverpool defensively strong and adept at counterattacking first of all before adding players to make them play a more expansive game. Even now when they score they immediately sit deep in that well organised shape and invite the other team on to hit them on the counter.

A balance between strong defence and incisive attack is obviously best, but I prefer to see a coach focus on making the defence tight first of all. It means we’re always in games. There have only been a couple of times this season where we have been well beaten. We do attack when needed in games, but overall Lamouchi has the right approach.

Fair points, and again as i said in my post, we have spent the season developing the defense and a style of play that Sabri thinks gets the best out of the squad.

Now the next steps are to perhaps take the breaks off in games against certain team, most recently against Barnsley, go for it rather than play for the point. End of day we ended up with zero points.

And of course Sabri needs to learn from this season as Bielsa did, as Klopp did, and now he has a defensive style, make sure the players he brings in can play it, and also bring in quality players who can give him options in attack, and give him the confidence to play.

I have bigged up the Brentford method for years, we havent gone down that route, and reason we have continual problems.

Also, look at Norwich last year, didnt spend big but attacking football got them to the Premier League, and Sheff Utd, developed a style of play which was both defensive with 3 central defenders but attacking, and that is doing well in the Premier League. (wilder a manager i suggested for Forest when he was at Northampton).

The football at moment is sterile, and lacklustre, and late goals derail all that hard defensive work. The only plan b i have seen was on Sunday against Barnsley to play 5 at the back and make it more defensive, it simply didnt work. He has players to attack, but for whatever reason doesnt trust them, so next season, needs to rectify that.

Sabri now has an extended deal, has had his eyes opened by the Championship, and i hope will be all the more stronger for it next season (albeit a very short pre season to change much for next season) but he has just got to attack teams and stop worrying about them, they're not that many of the ilk of Leeds, West Brom, Fulham and Brentford in the league, and with Leeds going up i can see 2 of that group joining leeds in the EPL.

I just don’t agree that he has got to attack teams more or that he should stop using his tactical nous to prepare for each new opponent. That is his strength. Overall he’s doing a good job.

Assuming we are in the play offs what he will have learned most is that his approach is an effective one in the Championship. Considering the club’s expenditure he has done a good job to get us to where we are. Most games at this level are tight and won by the odd goal. With the addition of a few more suitable players he has provided a blueprint for improvement for next season.

I think his tactics have laid a good base for improvement but there's no denying if we are in championship next year, if we want to challenge higher up we need to improve against the lower placed teams in the league. So finding a way to become more attacking in those games would be vital, not sure improved personnel would be enough.

I do like our current tactics generally though, very pragmatic given our squad and have allowed us to compete in every game in a way we havent done for a long time. I'm willing to forgive the brain fade he had against barnsley in changing tactics to a formation noone understood and hope he learns from it (although its the third time he's made the same mistake...)

[Sabricadabra]

People say similar about Lamouchi’s idol Mourhino. I just don’t see the need for a change in his approach. Getting wins against those lower teams will be more about good recruitment, bringing in the players he wants, and those players slotting into a familiar and well organised system, than it will be about a change in tactics.

[Tricky]

People say similar about Lamouchi’s idol Mourhino. I just don’t see the need for a change in his approach. Getting wins against those lower teams will be more about good recruitment, bringing in the players he wants, and those players slotting into a familiar and well organised system, than it will be about a change in tactics.

^ This I agree with ^.

Most of our defeats have come about as a result of poor performances by the players. Look at Sunday for example, I don't think we managed to string three passes together the entire game! For some reason we resorted to the long punt forwards for the entire match and rarely won the first ball or second ball as a result. Yes Barnsley did a very high press on us, which stopped us from playing out from the back, but if they have got three players forward, pressing our defence, then there has to be gaps in the midfield, which we didnt exploit! Why? because the ball was sailing over our heads every time.

In most of our poor performances, most of the downfall has been through giving the ball away to the opposition and giving away stupid free kicks in dangerous areas. These are areas that should be sorted out no matter who is playing and in what ever formation. 

If you take for example our best starting line up, you have got a great partnership going on between Cash and Lolley down the right and an equally great partnership down the left with Rubero and Ameobi. These players have understandings about who does what and who goes where. The back up squad don't seem to have this same understanding, which is what baffles me the most. They must do the same stuff in training, but why don't they then bring it on to the pitch? Is this why they aren't good enough to start maybe?