(19-04-2021, 11:57 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(18-04-2021, 03:36 PM)stirred Wrote:

(18-04-2021, 10:44 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(17-04-2021, 09:38 PM)stirred Wrote:

(17-04-2021, 08:26 PM)wassy04 Wrote:
Hiding behind the free speech banner, the classic trope.of someone that knows they're saying something controversial. 

We're not even safe now ffs! If Rotherham get 4 points from their games in hand we'll be 6 from safety with 4 to play. Ridiculous notion to suggest we weren't in danger. It's this attitude that's the reason managers repeatedly get sacked and we get stuck in this painful cycle of repetitive failure. 

And for the record both Mighten and Yates have been brought into the side recently as well as Garner (admittedly not our player) I'm not really sure who you want in right now?! 

I'm not saying CH couldn't have done better but at least criticise him for the right things.

What on earth is that supposed to mean?!

It means that when you say people should be able to express their opinion that you're about to say something that most won't agree with. I think you can definitely criticise someone's opinion if they're saying something unhelpful. 

It came across to me that you were saying its my opinion, I'll say what I want regardless of the effects and I don't care what the rest of you think. 

My point is that this attitude is what's got us here to this point, if fans or groups of fans repeatedly turn on every manager we'll never get anywhere and this has been proven repeatedly with fact not opinion. Teams that get promoted tend to have had the same manager for a few years, that's fact. Not to say you can't go up in your first year it's just less likely, it's pretty difficult to go up already without parachute payments.

I'm certain you have made your mind up on CH and regardless of what anyone says or what happens next season you won't back down. However there are others reading that will not have and hopefully the more people that can be persuaded to have patience the more likely we'll be successful next season.

When crowds return we want positivity in the stands, not booing and moaning, I've never worked out how that will help the team.

No problem with criticizing an opinion, that's what I'm saying - it's ok to have different opinions, and you don't need to try to attack the person because they have a different opinion. That's what I don't like about referring to people who express that opinion as 'supporters'.

The other thing is distorting the opinion into something else that is easier to criticize. I haven't repeatedly turned on every manager, in fact quite the opposite. My criticism of Hughton is just that, and should be taken as that. Why have you mentioned booing or moaning in the stands? I have never been one to boo or moan from the stands. Ever. But you try to link my criticism of Hughton to that to diminish what I say, to link me as some sort of fickle fan. I'm not, I just have a different opinion!

Well to be fair the too are often intrinsically linked, you would be very much the exception to the rule if you are keeping your criticism purely to these pages, however you're right I apologise if that is actually the case.

I disagree though about different opinions, yes obviously it's ok to have different opinion. My point was people often hide behind this as an excuse to offer a controversial and often unpopular opinion. In this case, consistent negative abuse towards the manager can be persuasive. So you say you might not boo or moan in the stands, fine. However if you convince 3 others on here that you're right then they may not have the same control as yourself.

What is the benefit to voicing negative opinions on the manager? He's not going anywhere right now, we all know that. So what you can say in 6 months when we're struggling that you were right? Congrats. Would it not be better to be positive and try and convince others that may be more easily swayed that positivity and consistency are our best chance of success? Regardless of who the manager is, although in this case someone with a proven track record has a better chance than most.

(27-04-2021, 02:26 PM)stirred Wrote:

(19-04-2021, 11:57 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(18-04-2021, 03:36 PM)stirred Wrote:

(18-04-2021, 10:44 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(17-04-2021, 09:38 PM)stirred Wrote: What on earth is that supposed to mean?!

It means that when you say people should be able to express their opinion that you're about to say something that most won't agree with. I think you can definitely criticise someone's opinion if they're saying something unhelpful. 

It came across to me that you were saying its my opinion, I'll say what I want regardless of the effects and I don't care what the rest of you think. 

My point is that this attitude is what's got us here to this point, if fans or groups of fans repeatedly turn on every manager we'll never get anywhere and this has been proven repeatedly with fact not opinion. Teams that get promoted tend to have had the same manager for a few years, that's fact. Not to say you can't go up in your first year it's just less likely, it's pretty difficult to go up already without parachute payments.

I'm certain you have made your mind up on CH and regardless of what anyone says or what happens next season you won't back down. However there are others reading that will not have and hopefully the more people that can be persuaded to have patience the more likely we'll be successful next season.

When crowds return we want positivity in the stands, not booing and moaning, I've never worked out how that will help the team.

No problem with criticizing an opinion, that's what I'm saying - it's ok to have different opinions, and you don't need to try to attack the person because they have a different opinion. That's what I don't like about referring to people who express that opinion as 'supporters'.

The other thing is distorting the opinion into something else that is easier to criticize. I haven't repeatedly turned on every manager, in fact quite the opposite. My criticism of Hughton is just that, and should be taken as that. Why have you mentioned booing or moaning in the stands? I have never been one to boo or moan from the stands. Ever. But you try to link my criticism of Hughton to that to diminish what I say, to link me as some sort of fickle fan. I'm not, I just have a different opinion!

Well to be fair the too are often intrinsically linked, you would be very much the exception to the rule if you are keeping your criticism purely to these pages, however you're right I apologise if that is actually the case.

I disagree though about different opinions, yes obviously it's ok to have different opinion. My point was people often hide behind this as an excuse to offer a controversial and often unpopular opinion. In this case, consistent negative abuse towards the manager can be persuasive. So you say you might not boo or moan in the stands, fine. However if you convince 3 others on here that you're right then they may not have the same control as yourself.

What is the benefit to voicing negative opinions on the manager? He's not going anywhere right now, we all know that. So what you can say in 6 months when we're struggling that you were right? Congrats. Would it not be better to be positive and try and convince others that may be more easily swayed that positivity and consistency are our best chance of success? Regardless of who the manager is, although in this case someone with a proven track record has a better chance than most.

Just catching up with this. Ok, yeah, I'm sure there's a correlation to people criticizing the current manager to being impatient, but only fair to play the comment not the man unless he's obviously a wrong 'un?

Why criticize at all? Good question! Is the noble pursuit of truth not enough?! Can it have a negative spread, yes, but I think it should be ok for people to say it if it's how they see it, provided its not done maliciously (sure, in the moment of a defeat people can get a bit carried away). Fundamentally I'd rather know what all people think than only know what the optimists think, maybe that comes down to personality type to some degree. I kind of don't mind that, football is another avenue of life and in life you rarely get unanimity. Sorry if I'm sounding a bit pedantic over it, maybe its my personality defects coming into play, but it feels quite fundamental.

Anyway, I do try to limit negative comments, don't want to be a dark cloud. On the plus side I said fans shouldn't worry about relegation even when we were at the lows in the table! No more criticism from me now...at least until the weekend  :D

(27-04-2021, 02:31 PM)wassy04 Wrote:

(27-04-2021, 02:26 PM)stirred Wrote:

(19-04-2021, 11:57 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(18-04-2021, 03:36 PM)stirred Wrote:

(18-04-2021, 10:44 AM)wassy04 Wrote: It means that when you say people should be able to express their opinion that you're about to say something that most won't agree with. I think you can definitely criticise someone's opinion if they're saying something unhelpful. 

It came across to me that you were saying its my opinion, I'll say what I want regardless of the effects and I don't care what the rest of you think. 

My point is that this attitude is what's got us here to this point, if fans or groups of fans repeatedly turn on every manager we'll never get anywhere and this has been proven repeatedly with fact not opinion. Teams that get promoted tend to have had the same manager for a few years, that's fact. Not to say you can't go up in your first year it's just less likely, it's pretty difficult to go up already without parachute payments.

I'm certain you have made your mind up on CH and regardless of what anyone says or what happens next season you won't back down. However there are others reading that will not have and hopefully the more people that can be persuaded to have patience the more likely we'll be successful next season.

When crowds return we want positivity in the stands, not booing and moaning, I've never worked out how that will help the team.

No problem with criticizing an opinion, that's what I'm saying - it's ok to have different opinions, and you don't need to try to attack the person because they have a different opinion. That's what I don't like about referring to people who express that opinion as 'supporters'.

The other thing is distorting the opinion into something else that is easier to criticize. I haven't repeatedly turned on every manager, in fact quite the opposite. My criticism of Hughton is just that, and should be taken as that. Why have you mentioned booing or moaning in the stands? I have never been one to boo or moan from the stands. Ever. But you try to link my criticism of Hughton to that to diminish what I say, to link me as some sort of fickle fan. I'm not, I just have a different opinion!

Well to be fair the too are often intrinsically linked, you would be very much the exception to the rule if you are keeping your criticism purely to these pages, however you're right I apologise if that is actually the case.

I disagree though about different opinions, yes obviously it's ok to have different opinion. My point was people often hide behind this as an excuse to offer a controversial and often unpopular opinion. In this case, consistent negative abuse towards the manager can be persuasive. So you say you might not boo or moan in the stands, fine. However if you convince 3 others on here that you're right then they may not have the same control as yourself.

What is the benefit to voicing negative opinions on the manager? He's not going anywhere right now, we all know that. So what you can say in 6 months when we're struggling that you were right? Congrats. Would it not be better to be positive and try and convince others that may be more easily swayed that positivity and consistency are our best chance of success? Regardless of who the manager is, although in this case someone with a proven track record has a better chance than most.

Just catching up with this. Ok, yeah, I'm sure there's a correlation to people criticizing the current manager to being impatient, but only fair to play the comment not the man unless he's obviously a wrong 'un?

Why criticize at all? Good question! Is the noble pursuit of truth not enough?! Can it have a negative spread, yes, but I think it should be ok for people to say it if it's how they see it, provided its not done maliciously (sure, in the moment of a defeat people can get a bit carried away). Fundamentally I'd rather know what all people think than only know what the optimists think, maybe that comes down to personality type to some degree. I kind of don't mind that, football is another avenue of life and in life you rarely get unanimity. Sorry if I'm sounding a bit pedantic over it, maybe its my personality defects coming into play, but it feels quite fundamental.

Anyway, I do try to limit negative comments, don't want to be a dark cloud. On the plus side I said fans shouldn't worry about relegation even when we were at the lows in the table! No more criticism from me now...at least until the weekend  :D

Ha we're going to get told off for having the same argument across multiple threads soon. Criticism is fine, unfair criticism is not fine. I've decided to make it my mission to weed out unfair criticism by calling it out every time, ironically through criticism  :D